Royal Mail are back on the narrative of working all hours paid and want to use PDAs and other new technology to do resourcing and revisions. The union must oppose this move!

[twoloops]

We have some in our office that come in at 4:30 their official start time is 6:42 they are alway out by 8/8:30 always done by 12 even on a 2:50pm finish, when the relief does the walk she always goes over & gets grief off the DOM when he she trys to claim overtime or give a loop away, but nothing is ever said to these two clowns it's just ignored by the DOM.
Would this still be ignored with this new way of working?

[Woody Guthrie]

I've never worked in an industry where turkeys voted for Christmas....It's hilarious.
I hope all those who want every second monitored are up to standard, whatever standards Royal Mail decides to impose that is and I would imagine since productivity can't stand still those standards won't either...good luck with that.

I'll make a prediction if this comes to pass I doubt we'll see another full-time job in the business but hey ho as long as it stops somebody going home early it'll be worth it...won't it tommy?

[Woody Guthrie]

We have some in our office that come in at 4:30 their official start time is 6:42 they are alway out by 8/8:30 always done by 12 even on a 2:50pm finish, when the relief does the walk she always goes over & gets grief off the DOM when he she trys to claim overtime or give a loop away, but nothing is ever said to these two clowns it's just ignored by the DOM.
Would this still be ignored with this new way of working?

Anything that could cost the business will be ignored....you can take that to the bank matty.
Always has been always will be.

[number one]

I've never worked in an industry where turkeys voted for Christmas....It's hilarious.
I hope all those who want every second monitored are up to standard, whatever standards Royal Mail decides to impose that is and I would imagine since productivity can't stand still those standards won't either...good luck with that.

I'll make a prediction if this comes to pass I doubt we'll see another full-time job in the business but hey ho as long as it stops somebody going home early it'll be worth it...won't it tommy?

Well said. Too many people worrying about what others are doing. People need to realise some people have a get on with it attitude and others just drag their feet. If the work is all done and somebody makes an hour or two then so be it

[Newbie001]

I've never worked in an industry where turkeys voted for Christmas....It's hilarious.
I hope all those who want every second monitored are up to standard, whatever standards Royal Mail decides to impose that is and I would imagine since productivity can't stand still those standards won't either...good luck with that.

I'll make a prediction if this comes to pass I doubt we'll see another full-time job in the business but hey ho as long as it stops somebody going home early it'll be worth it...won't it tommy?

Well said. Too many people worrying about what others are doing. People need to realise some people have a get on with it attitude and others just drag their feet. If the work is all done and somebody makes an hour or two then so be it

It's not just about worrying about others. If you're in an office where they leave u alone and you milk it then fair play. But if you're in office where they remove a duty every single year, or keep replacing full timers with part-timers and there's all these spare hours kicking about, with no question as to why. Then people only have themselves to blame.
Doesn't effect part-timers so much, our job has remained pretty much the same since I started. But full timers. Most of them are a heart-attack waiting to happen.

[heraldmoth]

Here's an idea just work the hours your payed for don't worry about what everyone else does or doesn't do. If you don't mind doing overtime and getting paid great, if you don't want the overtime work your hours and go home. If your doing the job to a high standard and don't take the piss there isn't much a dom can complain about.

[tommyrep]

I've never worked in an industry where turkeys voted for Christmas....It's hilarious.
I hope all those who want every second monitored are up to standard, whatever standards Royal Mail decides to impose that is and I would imagine since productivity can't stand still those standards won't either...good luck with that.

I'll make a prediction if this comes to pass I doubt we'll see another full-time job in the business but hey ho as long as it stops somebody going home early it'll be worth it...won't it tommy?

I am not so stupid as to want ANY job loses, that’s for 110% sure. My worry is RM are now totally focusing on doing exactly that and using our own colleagues past track record and their maverick actions as examples to assist them on their way.
You just don’t get it do you? RM want to utilise ALL paid hours and that is the end of the story. Even you cannot stop that train and still keep your early birds happy at the same time.
Why you are so besotted with supporting the job and knock of old is a mystery to me, other than to appease your mates.
It is well and truly gone and the Union have long accepted that, maybe it is time you accepted it too.
I have told you before if the race to get home early brigade actions had NO impact on every one else! I’d have no complaint
The real threat to jobs is Royal Mail KNOWING that people are sitting a home Woody, while still on the meter! They are not content with anything other than Savings at all costs, anywhere. Due to a warped bonus system, they can depend largely on management intimidation to reduce any OT payments to zero if possible, as well as other ludicrous housekeeping cuts.
Don’t you realise that is their whole intention with their PDA/ technology plans, to squeeze as much as possible out of their workforce. There are downfalls with their proposals, but the Union members would still need to endorse any drastic changes at the ballot box. So long as the recognised START and FINISH times are protected, without the daily 30 min imposed flexibility mentioned, the workers rights should still be protected and posties will be able to go home at a recognised finish time without fear of any recriminations.- Unless the Union get hoodwinked (and not for the first time)
All I want is fairness and the removal of B&H along with the intimidation it causes, in all honestly I would be happy with anything that can help achieve that.

[Ren Hoëk]

I've never worked in an industry where turkeys voted for Christmas....It's hilarious.
I hope all those who want every second monitored are up to standard, whatever standards Royal Mail decides to impose that is and I would imagine since productivity can't stand still those standards won't either...good luck with that.

I'll make a prediction if this comes to pass I doubt we'll see another full-time job in the business but hey ho as long as it stops somebody going home early it'll be worth it...won't it tommy?

Well said. Too many people worrying about what others are doing. People need to realise some people have a get on with it attitude and others just drag their feet. If the work is all done and somebody makes an hour or two then so be it

Some people arnt deluding themselves into to thinking starting early, working through breaks and running around likes mad men wont mean increased workload. Run around they WILL add more. Our walks have increased and will continue to do so. Lapsing has increased. They will squeeze as much out of us as possible. Where as if we worked sensibly and to our own bloody standards (Sorry, "drag our feet") then the job would be far easier. Both mentally and physically.

I will also add these "runners" are part and parcel of the pressure placed on staff. When you have a pair of duty holders hurtling around shavings hours off a walk to then be replaced by a reserve/float who then can barley complete or even cut off. The DOM will then make comparisons. It DOES happen. Where the F is the solidarity?! Some of the most selfish people I have ever met work for this company!

[citypostie]

I've never worked in an industry where turkeys voted for Christmas....It's hilarious.
I hope all those who want every second monitored are up to standard, whatever standards Royal Mail decides to impose that is and I would imagine since productivity can't stand still those standards won't either...good luck with that.

I'll make a prediction if this comes to pass I doubt we'll see another full-time job in the business but hey ho as long as it stops somebody going home early it'll be worth it...won't it tommy?

I am not so stupid as to want ANY job loses, that’s for 110% sure. My worry is RM are now totally focusing on doing exactly that and using our own colleagues past track record and their maverick actions as examples to assist them on their way.
You just don’t get it do you? RM want to utilise ALL paid hours and that is the end of the story. Even you cannot stop that train and still keep your early birds happy at the same time.
Why you are so besotted with supporting the job and knock of old is a mystery to me, other than to appease your mates.
It is well and truly gone and the Union have long accepted that, maybe it is time you accepted it too.
I have told you before if the race to get home early brigade actions had NO impact on every one else! I’d have no complaint
The real threat to jobs is Royal Mail KNOWING that people are sitting a home Woody, while still on the meter! They are not content with anything other than Savings at all costs, anywhere. Due to a warped bonus system, they can depend largely on management intimidation to reduce any OT payments to zero if possible, as well as other ludicrous housekeeping cuts.
Don’t you realise that is their whole intention with their PDA/ technology plans, to squeeze as much as possible out of their workforce. There are downfalls with their proposals, but the Union members would still need to endorse any drastic changes at the ballot box. So long as the recognised START and FINISH times are protected, without the daily 30 min imposed flexibility mentioned, the workers rights should still be protected and posties will be able to go home at a recognised finish time without fear of any recriminations.- Unless the Union get hoodwinked (and not for the first time)
All I want is fairness and the removal of B&H along with the intimidation it causes, in all honestly I would be happy with anything that can help achieve that.

Read your last paragraph and think about how royal mail management works. Do you really think if they get realtime tracking and outdoor performance standards that will achieve any of that? I'd bet money on it being the exact opposite unless you are lucky and have a very strong union presence in your office because whatever safeguards the cwu managed to obtain would be totally ignored in weak offices just like they always have been. Anyone who claims overtime regularly or cuts off(especially cuts off) would be in for a hellish time once managers have the green light to use pdas to measure performance against royal mail's standards

[Woody Guthrie]

You just don’t get it do you? RM want to utilise ALL paid hours and that is the end of the story

Yes they do and it's up to every rep to show that all paid hours are utilised at the weekly resource meeting.
I can do that, I can show that the indoor hours match up and I can show that the outdoor delivery spans match up.
That leaves Royal Mail no scope to increase indoor or outdoor workload.
I think it's you that doesn't get it.

[Celgar]

From what I have read on this forum via 'dingo' and with discussions in WTLL I don't think what the guy in the video is saying is entirely correct.
Regarding AHDC for three reasons at least I don't think it is going to be deployed. Firstly the union have made objections to it on the automatic nature of the system. Secondly I think dingo said that the AHDC trials resulted in RM having to pay for more time worked which they don't like at all. Thirdly when fittings & frames are in close proximity to each other the AHDC system cannot correctly determine the data & different posties data gets mixed up. In short it doesn't work.
Regarding walk revisions RM want to use data from the emergency services to determine walk routes and lengths rather than the current system which comes from the utility companies. Personally I think we could gather our own data from Postie's via the PDAs but RM either don't have the brains to realise this or they don't trust us to do it for them.
I don't think any of us do or should have a problem with working all the hours we are paid for. This is or should be the norm in most paid jobs. We do have a problem with the job taking longer than the hours we are paid for though. I think we also have a problem with the work hours moving later into the day. One of the good points of being a postie was always to be able to get finished earlier in the day to allow for other commitments at home or just to have some daytime to do other things in rather than be 9 to 5 like most other people. If we are going to move more towards the 9 to 5 model but still have to work most Saturdays then this makes working for RM an even more unattractive proposition than it currently is.

[tommyrep]

I've never worked in an industry where turkeys voted for Christmas....It's hilarious.
I hope all those who want every second monitored are up to standard, whatever standards Royal Mail decides to impose that is and I would imagine since productivity can't stand still those standards won't either...good luck with that.

I'll make a prediction if this comes to pass I doubt we'll see another full-time job in the business but hey ho as long as it stops somebody going home early it'll be worth it...won't it tommy?

I am not so stupid as to want ANY job loses, that’s for 110% sure. My worry is RM are now totally focusing on doing exactly that and using our own colleagues past track record and their maverick actions as examples to assist them on their way.
You just don’t get it do you? RM want to utilise ALL paid hours and that is the end of the story. Even you cannot stop that train and still keep your early birds happy at the same time.
Why you are so besotted with supporting the job and knock of old is a mystery to me, other than to appease your mates.
It is well and truly gone and the Union have long accepted that, maybe it is time you accepted it too.
I have told you before if the race to get home early brigade actions had NO impact on every one else! I’d have no complaint
The real threat to jobs is Royal Mail KNOWING that people are sitting a home Woody, while still on the meter! They are not content with anything other than Savings at all costs, anywhere. Due to a warped bonus system, they can depend largely on management intimidation to reduce any OT payments to zero if possible, as well as other ludicrous housekeeping cuts.
Don’t you realise that is their whole intention with their PDA/ technology plans, to squeeze as much as possible out of their workforce. There are downfalls with their proposals, but the Union members would still need to endorse any drastic changes at the ballot box. So long as the recognised START and FINISH times are protected, without the daily 30 min imposed flexibility mentioned, the workers rights should still be protected and posties will be able to go home at a recognised finish time without fear of any recriminations.- Unless the Union get hoodwinked (and not for the first time)
All I want is fairness and the removal of B&H along with the intimidation it causes, in all honestly I would be happy with anything that can help achieve that.

Read your last paragraph and think about how royal mail management works. Do you really think if they get realtime tracking and outdoor performance standards that will achieve any of that? I'd bet money on it being the exact opposite unless you are lucky and have a very strong union presence in your office because whatever safeguards the cwu managed to obtain would be totally ignored in weak offices just like they always have been. Anyone who claims overtime regularly or cuts off(especially cuts off) would be in for a hellish time once managers have the green light to use pdas to measure performance against royal mail's standards

That last paragraph was in the context mainly about and ongoing debate with Woody about early starters effect on others in a DO, that mainly being subjected to B&H with added intimidation.
I think the point I was trying to make was this - with a level playing field applied by these proposed changes everyone would be in the same boat. By that not a targeted few faced with daily intimidation.
I do not be believe for one second that intimidation would disappear completely, but many may not find themselves out on a limb quiet so much, dare I say with more solidarity. I fully realise how RM management works, but this presents the Union with an opportunity to start with us all singing from the same hymn sheet. If the Union gets things right - a big IF - they should have things in place to draw in the way RM managers work and ensure the changes in culture really do happen.
I do not suggest for a minute RM have any other motive but to screw every last minutes work from the posties, it is the CWUs job to ensure they do not have a free hand and our T&Cs are protected - especially an official guaranteed finish time.

[norris9]

Working all paid hours sounds great to me....So if we are not back at the depot early from our rounds, we are all entitled to cut-off and drive back to the depot for approx 2pm, unload etc and leave the depot at 2.15pm, or we get paid for every minute of overtime and don't need to arrange it before we leave the depot?

Sounds awesome. Yeah I like to go home early, but I also dislike going home late and not being paid for it. I'd rather just be guaranteed a 2.15pm finish.

If RM no longer want to do Posties a favour in letting them leave early, then surely Posties won't do RM favours such as working through their breaks and working past their contracted hours for free.

[citypostie]

If RM no longer want to do Posties a favour in letting them leave early, then surely Posties won't do RM favours such as working through their breaks and working past their contracted hours for free.

Exactly that happened in my office and overtime only done after contracted time. The resulting mess in the office with overtime not covered and people coming back bang on time so unable to do anymore work in non existent spare time meant it lasted less than a week. Would probably be different now though because all vacancies are filled and there's hardly any overtime to cover

[tommyrep]

You just don’t get it do you? RM want to utilise ALL paid hours and that is the end of the story

Yes they do and it's up to every rep to show that all paid hours are utilised at the weekly resource meeting.
I can do that, I can show that the indoor hours match up and I can show that the outdoor delivery spans match up.
That leaves Royal Mail no scope to increase indoor or outdoor workload.
I think it's you that doesn't get it.

Woody! By your own admission you were finished at 11.30 or so!
You are also protective and defensive towards that band of rule breakers while fobbing off as irrelevant those who do not enjoy a very good working life experience with RM, due to bullying managers. Moaners? for being bullied, how dare they!
I do not know your official finish time but RM want that unworked time utilised, make no mistake on that.
Your resource meetings hours are not set in stone, they are a following week guideline resourcing tool that can change + and -, daily. Their base information is merely fabricated guess work -mainly in favour of RMs agenda.
I will say that your unit is unique and your skills at a resourcing meeting is admirable when you have had NO lapsing in 18 months. I do not think ANY other unit nationwide could claim a similar feat. How is your record on members B&H cases?
Anyway, change is afoot whether you welcome it or not. If things turn out shambolic - as it probably will!- at least the select batch of people who currently and regularly (daily) get bullied and intimidated will not be left isolated, more shoulders to share the intimidation load. Then you can test your real Rep negotiating skills to alleviate that impact on those added to the until now unknown bullying experience. Maybe if more members receive the perceived increase in B&H treatment- as will undoubtably happen - our CWU may finally admit there is a problem and take real steps to address it.
As a Rep be honest and admit the victims of managements intimidation are poorly represented, forgotten souls where Reps and senior colleagues do not care much about the treatment they endure. Maybe you will already know that.