The actuals

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 10 Oct 2018, 08:55

number one wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:
number one wrote:All this talk is nonsense, this is what’s going to happen......absolutely nothing.
Do you honestly believe that if the PDA actuals show people finishing early that they'll never add anything to them walks?
Yes. As soon as you add work people rebel and will leave mail in. Do you honestly believe management want be leaving mail in every day?

Staffing these days is down to budget, I doubt they'd have any choice as I'd expect higher up will tell them that they have x hours excess which they must remove from the office. My guess is that they'll get a few more people in to get walks prepped and possibly increase the time spent outside delivering the mail

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Oct 2018, 13:30

miles_peters wrote:why penalise people for being fast efficient and organised? no one works at the same speed.

Because we are paid by the hour - so everyone should work the hours they are paid for. It's not penalising anyone if they can do the job in the hours they are paid.

If we were paid on a piece rate then faster posters would finish earlier than the slower people.

number one wrote:Sounds like you’re possibly one of the jealous slower posties that worries too much about everybody else. Maybe stop worrying about others and concentrate on the job in hand and you might finish in good time.

Thats okay you sound like one of those jealous quicker posties, that worries too much that older, slower posties are conning someone. Maybe stop worrying about other and concentrate on your own job rather than what is more properly part of the management role.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Oct 2018, 13:33

postietom wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
Of course you can make postie b go faster. They either need retraining or telling that with the actuals being half arsed and lazy isn't an option anymore. If there is no standard for outdoor work, that's ludacrous. If you've got two people working to rule, and one is taking longer than the other on the same duty there's an issue with the other postie. Saying basically that doesn't matter so said postie gets paid more for doing the same work is nonsense frankly. It's no better than ghosting.
How could there be a standard for outdoor work?
How would it work?
A 60 year old and a 20 year old?
No two duties are the same?
No two days are the same?
Medical issues?
Physical fitness and ability?
Please explain how that would work I'm really interested.

In order to avoid all kinds of discrimination and variables you would need to set the bar so low it would be pointless.
So if somebody is milking it in order to bag more overtime that's fine? What's the difference between that and ghosting?

No its not fine and there are processes in place that managers should follow. It's not for posties to question the work ethic of other posters. These processes take into account all the legislation to do with age and disabilities.

number one · Post by **number one** » 10 Oct 2018, 13:34

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
miles_peters wrote:why penalise people for being fast efficient and organised? no one works at the same speed.

Because we are paid by the hour - so everyone should work the hours they are paid for. It's not penalising anyone if they can do the job in the hours they are paid.

If we were paid on a piece rate then faster posters would finish earlier than the slower people.

number one wrote:Sounds like you’re possibly one of the jealous slower posties that worries too much about everybody else. Maybe stop worrying about others and concentrate on the job in hand and you might finish in good time.
Thats okay you sound like one of those jealous quicker posties, that worries too much that older, slower posties are conning someone. Maybe stop worrying about other and concentrate on your own job rather than what is more properly part of the management role.

I can assure you I am not worried about anything. I only respond to accusations that the “runners” should be doing this and that. I really don’t care what people do, I have no interest. It seems more people are obsessed with the quiker posties than the heel draggers.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Oct 2018, 13:40

number one wrote:I can assure you I am not worried about anything. I only respond to accusations that the “runners” should be doing this and that. I really don’t care what people do, I have no interest. It seems more people are obsessed with the quicker posties than the heel-draggers.

I think you missed the point of my post. I transposed all the elements you used, to show that your position can be turned the other way as well. It was meant to show that what you accuse other people of, they can also accuse you of the same.

If you don't care, but chose to respond, then perhaps you can allow that others with a different opinion also don't care, but also wish to respond.

number one · Post by **number one** » 10 Oct 2018, 13:54

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:
number one wrote:I can assure you I am not worried about anything. I only respond to accusations that the “runners” should be doing this and that. I really don’t care what people do, I have no interest. It seems more people are obsessed with the quicker posties than the heel-draggers.
I think you missed the point of my post. I transposed all the elements you used, to show that your position can be turned the other way as well. It was meant to show that what you accuse other people of, they can also accuse you of the same.

If you don't care, but chose to respond, then perhaps you can allow that others with a different opinion also don't care, but also wish to respond.

You’re the one that doesn’t understand. I will never be the one that instigates an argument against slower posties but when slower posties start calling the ones who are quicker then yes I will get involved. If EVERYBODY just concentrated on their own work then the place would be a better place to work.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 10 Oct 2018, 14:47

I've heard those threats of "leaving mail in" before, it never happens. Most of these guys rely on overtime every week and therefore have to stay on management's good side.

As I've pointed out already even if runners start doing the job properly and finishing on time and nothing gets added to their duty it's still a win for the DOM because he doesn't have to explain to his boss why this guy is finished an hour early.Delivery Office savings for next year will be based on under-utilisation of hours so all those hours will be coming out of the office budget, if I were a DOM right now I would be begging staff to take their breaks and finish on time. Every hour they don't is an hour he/she is going to lose and once it's gone it's gone for good.

matthew68 · Post by **matthew68** » 10 Oct 2018, 14:55

Woody Guthrie wrote:I've heard those threats of "leaving mail in" before, it never happens. Most of these guys rely on overtime every week and therefore have to stay on management's good side.

As I've pointed out already even if runners start doing the job properly and finishing on time and nothing gets added to their duty it's still a win for the DOM because he doesn't have to explain to his boss why this guy is finished an hour early.Delivery Office savings for next year will be based on under-utilisation of hours so all those hours will be coming out of the office budget, if I were a DOM right now I would be begging staff to take their breaks and finish on time. Every hour they don't is an hour he/she is going to lose and once it's gone it's gone for good.

Most of the problem is two people in a van. I work with someone who buys own admission is not very quick and doesn’t want me to help him so every loop I have to wait 3 to 5 minutes for him we have eight loops we also do large parcels on his loops at the end and when he is on holiday I finish about 45 minutes earlier , Yet when I work with him I have to claim 30 to 60 minutes overtime every day to Dom is moaning at me for being late but you are only as fast as your partner it’s a problem which will only get worse especially now the walks are just so big he is suffering from his knees as are lots of people I can see the whole thing just getting bad to worse

number one · Post by **number one** » 10 Oct 2018, 15:06

matthew68 wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:I've heard those threats of "leaving mail in" before, it never happens. Most of these guys rely on overtime every week and therefore have to stay on management's good side.

As I've pointed out already even if runners start doing the job properly and finishing on time and nothing gets added to their duty it's still a win for the DOM because he doesn't have to explain to his boss why this guy is finished an hour early.Delivery Office savings for next year will be based on under-utilisation of hours so all those hours will be coming out of the office budget, if I were a DOM right now I would be begging staff to take their breaks and finish on time. Every hour they don't is an hour he/she is going to lose and once it's gone it's gone for good.
Most of the problem is two people in a van. I work with someone who buys own admission is not very quick and doesn’t want me to help him so every loop I have to wait 3 to 5 minutes for him we have eight loops we also do large parcels on his loops at the end and when he is on holiday I finish about 45 minutes earlier , Yet when I work with him I have to claim 30 to 60 minutes overtime every day to Dom is moaning at me for being late but you are only as fast as your partner it’s a problem which will only get worse especially now the walks are just so big he is suffering from his knees as are lots of people I can see the whole thing just getting bad to worse

People will be on you in a minute saying it’s your fault, you’re too quick, you run, you don’t do the job properly, your partner does it right blah blah blahhh....

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 10 Oct 2018, 16:17

matthew68 wrote: Most of the problem is two people in a van. I work with someone who buys own admission is not very quick and doesn’t want me to help him so every loop I have to wait 3 to 5 minutes for him we have eight loops we also do large parcels on his loops at the end and when he is on holiday I finish about 45 minutes earlier , Yet when I work with him I have to claim 30 to 60 minutes overtime every day to Dom is moaning at me for being late but you are only as fast as your partner it’s a problem which will only get worse especially now the walks are just so big he is suffering from his knees as are lots of people I can see the whole thing just getting bad to worse

Can't you simply adjust the loops so you take a little bit more and he does a little bit less.

number one · Post by **number one** » 10 Oct 2018, 16:23

clashcityrocker wrote:
matthew68 wrote: Most of the problem is two people in a van. I work with someone who buys own admission is not very quick and doesn’t want me to help him so every loop I have to wait 3 to 5 minutes for him we have eight loops we also do large parcels on his loops at the end and when he is on holiday I finish about 45 minutes earlier , Yet when I work with him I have to claim 30 to 60 minutes overtime every day to Dom is moaning at me for being late but you are only as fast as your partner it’s a problem which will only get worse especially now the walks are just so big he is suffering from his knees as are lots of people I can see the whole thing just getting bad to worse
Can't you simply adjust the loops so you take a little bit more and he does a little bit less.

Yeah lets all do more work to accommodate slower workers.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 10 Oct 2018, 16:58

Can't you simply adjust the loops so you take a little bit more and he does a little bit less.

That's actually part of the remit for the use of PDA actuals.
It's called walk optimisation, any static time on the PDA is to be investigated and adjustments made to ensure as near as possible both are returning to the van at the same time. I personally think it's micromanaging but you have to wonder why people can't sort this out themselves.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 10 Oct 2018, 17:05

Woody Guthrie wrote:......but you have to wonder why people can't sort this out themselves.

I think it largely because there are an abnormal number of people who work in RM who have absolutely no concept of team working and seem to live in the belief that at no point in their life will they require the help of a colleague.
Instead they blunder on like immature bellends spending a lot of their working life doing secret little deals with their favourite work colleague - the DOM.
Personally I think we should look after each other. From each according to their means and all that.

DrSatan · Post by **DrSatan** » 10 Oct 2018, 17:14

number one wrote:Yeah lets all do more work to accommodate slower workers.

This is what happens in most if not all jobs. It's not something that's out of the ordinary.

In most jobs, the manager will place the 'best'/fastest or most suited person on the task or job that requires the most output in least time. In previous jobs, I've been slower and faster than others, leading me to do more or less work than someone else on the same pay. Is it fair? No but then life isn't fair.

At the end of the day, we are paid by hour not by job/task or duty.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 10 Oct 2018, 17:35

At the end of the day, we are paid by hour not by job/task or duty.

That probably sums it up better than anything.
It's just a job , turn up on time, go home on time and do the best you can in between. If your best is better than the next guy so what, there are no special prizes given out at the end of the day for bestest postie. If people can only validate their existance by how fast they can get around a delivery that's pretty sad and I pity their empty lives.