London CWU Update on Talks

nudenut · Post by **nudenut** » 09 Jan 2018, 21:50

Mozalini wrote:£500pw take home, Mon-Fri, a return to 2 and a half hour walks and second deliveries returned otherwise it's a 'no' from me.

Ah now that would be a result lol....

awesomepenguin · Post by **awesomepenguin** » 10 Jan 2018, 08:19

dingo wrote:Why do you go over the finishing times now ? Your very Milliant on here why don’t you stop it ?

There is an agreed delivery span of between 14:00 and 15:00 for towns and cities and apart from voluntary overtime no one should be going past that on delivery.

The hour off the working week works out at 12 mins a day off a 5 day duty and progrsss has been made to ensure the vast majority will not have to finish later.

If you are going past your time or you have different span unless your a rural Delivery than you are allowing Royal Mail to break the Agreement. Why don’t you stop them doing that ?

Sorry but it should not be down to the members/staff to stop it. The simple fact is these duty times/structures that go over their time every day should never have been agreed or signed off by the union in the first place!

Agreeing to duty structures or duty times that do not work in the first place then leaving the members to have to battle everyday with management is totally wrong.

LouBarlow · Post by **LouBarlow** » 10 Jan 2018, 08:23

People - read into this proposed agreement and you will see it clearly does not in any way address the number 1 issue - pensions!

we are relying on future legislation which is no way guaranteed. If an agreement cannot even deal with point 1 on the list of issues, it is a massive failure.

nudenut · Post by **nudenut** » 10 Jan 2018, 08:57

Do we get any backpay on overtime performed in last year ? Or would it be just a one off payment ??

Post by **Lincox** » 10 Jan 2018, 10:51

Now there's a question, particularly for part timers who work full time hours or more.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 10 Jan 2018, 11:12

nudenut wrote:Do we get any backpay on overtime performed in last year ? Or would it be just a one off payment ??

If they agree a pay rise backdated to April 2017 then all your pay will be backdated - just as it would have been if the pay rise had been agree in March 2017.

nudenut · Post by **nudenut** » 10 Jan 2018, 11:38

clashcityrocker wrote:
nudenut wrote:Do we get any backpay on overtime performed in last year ? Or would it be just a one off payment ??
If they agree a pay rise backdated to April 2017 then all your pay will be backdated - just as it would have been if the pay rise had been agree in March 2017.

I think I can remember this happening before , a cap was put on your backdated o/t if I remember rightly ....

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Jan 2018, 13:02

Your late today wrote:There is an hour off the working week and for part timers this is the equivalent of 2.6% pay rise.
Might be the equivalent of a 2.6% pay rise but you won’t see it in your pay and you’ll still be delivering the same amount of mail or sorry mails down

Yes you will see it in your pay. If our hours are reduced but the pay remains the same, that means the hourly rate increases for EVERYONE.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Jan 2018, 13:04

nudenut wrote:
clashcityrocker wrote:
nudenut wrote:Do we get any backpay on overtime performed in last year ? Or would it be just a one off payment ??
If they agree a pay rise backdated to April 2017 then all your pay will be backdated - just as it would have been if the pay rise had been agree in March 2017.
I think I can remember this happening before , a cap was put on your backdated o/t if I remember rightly ....

That hasn't happened in the 14 years I have been working for RM, and I suspect such an agreement would be illegal anyway.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 10 Jan 2018, 13:08

dingo wrote:Why do you go over the finishing times now ? Your very Milliant on here why don’t you stop it ?

There is an agreed delivery span of between 14:00 and 15:00 for towns and cities and apart from voluntary overtime no one should be going past that on delivery.

The hour off the working week works out at 12 mins a day off a 5 day duty and progrsss has been made to ensure the vast majority will not have to finish later.

If you are going past your time or you have different span unless your a rural Delivery than you are allowing Royal Mail to break the Agreement. Why don’t you stop them doing that ?

Because the Union has no process in place to police local branches and their local deals. That's why sometimes on here we get people complaining of bad reps agreeing on bad deals or feathering their nests. Now hopefully that's just disgruntled members of certain units, and the problem itself is not that widespread. However, perception is the key and the CWU needs more oversight of local branches and reps.

nudenut · Post by **nudenut** » 10 Jan 2018, 13:21

[quote="TrueBlueTerrier"

It was before your time I think

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 10 Jan 2018, 15:33

Progress on pay which is based on a percentage increase flowing through to all pay and allowances. This will be for a two year period.

Just for clarification are we talking about 2017/18 and 2018/19?
I'm hearing mixed messages....again.

nuisance · Post by **nuisance** » 10 Jan 2018, 15:40

dingo wrote:Why do you go over the finishing times now ? Your very Milliant on here why don’t you stop it ?

There is an agreed delivery span of between 14:00 and 15:00 for towns and cities and apart from voluntary overtime no one should be going past that on delivery.

Twenty hour contracts mean many of us need to work lots of voluntary overtime, that doesn't mean we should be expected to be walking the streets until God-knows-what time after darkness falls. I am still very worried about this issue. Outdoor workers ought to be doing that outdoor work during daylight hours for both safety and efficiency.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 10 Jan 2018, 16:13

There is an agreed delivery span of between 14:00 and 15:00 for towns and cities and apart from voluntary overtime no one should be going past that on delivery.

As the union should be aware resourcing and staffing in deliveries is a shambles. The resourcing model doesn't work other than on paper and full-time staff in a lot of offices are struggling to cover management deficiency. This impacts on the time both full-time and part-time staff are leaving the office which obviously impacts on finish times.

What comes next is a ridiculous confrontation with management armed only with the overrunning delivery procedure which is embarrassingly outdated and not fit for purpose in the 21st century. It places all the burden of decision making on the member, doesn't even recognise that there are two people in a van and leaves all the risk for getting things wrong with the delivery officer.

Answer this question, in what other industry do staff have to ask management if they can stop working when they're supposed to stop working? The onus needs to be switched to management to ask members if they want to work overtime and if they say no it needs to be management's duty to ensure that workload does not exceed work hours and no pressure is applied to that member of staff to work overtime against their will.

This would require a complete change in management philosophy and it would need to come from the people sitting around that negotiating table, not only that it would have to be effectively policed by both sides at a level above the delivery office.

Chitchat · Post by **Chitchat** » 10 Jan 2018, 16:49

fishtank wrote:
There is an agreed delivery span of between 14:00 and 15:00 for towns and cities and apart from voluntary overtime no one should be going past that on delivery.
As the union should be aware resourcing and staffing in deliveries is a shambles. The resourcing model doesn't work other than on paper and full-time staff in a lot of offices are struggling to cover management deficiency. This impacts on the time both full-time and part-time staff are leaving the office which obviously impacts on finish times.

What comes next is a ridiculous confrontation with management armed only with the overrunning delivery procedure which is embarrassingly outdated and not fit for purpose in the 21st century. It places all the burden of decision making on the member, doesn't even recognise that there are two people in a van and leaves all the risk for getting things wrong with the delivery officer.

Answer this question, in what other industry do staff have to ask management if they can stop working when they're supposed to stop working? The onus needs to be switched to management to ask members if they want to work overtime and if they say no it needs to be management's duty to ensure that workload does not exceed work hours and no pressure is applied to that member of staff to work overtime against their will.

This would require a complete change in management philosophy and it would need to come from the people sitting around that negotiating table, not only that it would have to be effectively policed by both sides at a level above the delivery office.

I 100% agree with this. Its so true, you go to the management and have to argue why you should be allowed to finish on time and regularly get made to feel inadequate when they compare you to someone else, yeah someone who doesn't take breaks, comes in early and runs round the duty like their being chased down the road by a bull.