Strikes are coming

[Deadly]

Nick, do you really think they'll stop at pensions? They will want more and more from us, that is for certain.

[Binsey]

Nick, do you really think they'll stop at pensions? They will want more and more from us, that is for certain.

Agreed every other Public owned organisation thats been privatised sooner of later they have gone after there terms and conditions.
My mate worked for British Gas he tells a scary story about post privatisation........

[TrueBlueTerrier]

To paraphrase Martin Niemoller

First they came for the Drivers allowance, and I did not strike —
Because I was a Walker.

Then they came for the early shift allowance, and I did not strike —
Because I started at 8.

Then they came for the Pensions, and I did not strike—
Because I was not in the scheme.

Then they came for my pay—and there was no one left who wanted to strike with me.

[Martin Walsh]

Nick so are Pensions ! The Pension debate is one of many discussions which impact on all workers and let's be clear Royal Mail have often taken a decision to notify staff of a change who can recall in 2007 when they pushed later starts due to network changes. Some took action some did not. Those who did generally have better start times now than those who did not !

If you fight you always get better than if you don't !

[nickbsmooth]

I joined in 2007 and was on strike in my 1st week. This was my 1st taste of industrial action having always worked in the private sector for small firms.
I seem to recall we had about 3 days of industrial action that summer.
I left early 2008 and worked for a company where industrial action was a breach of contract and would lead to dismissal.
I have to say after being at RM I did feel more vulnerable being in a company where we couldn't have strong leverage other than endless debates.
I rejoined RM late 2008 so rejoined pension post defined benefits.
Ive never crossed the picket line yet and can afford to be off work,but I do now being older and hopefully wiser need to know the bottom line like actual facts not hear say. It seems the work load is going up constantly with stuff just imposed on us like collections and 2D scanning,claw backs and so on, so far none of these things have been challenged.
I never voted in favour of the way forward agreement or wanted privatisation. So maybe a lot of this extra work has been blindly voted for?

The Royal Mail as far as I'm concerned should have remained in the public's pocket and while it needed to be modernized to be more efficient,it should never have been for profit or for fat cats pay, but been a cost neutral service.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I left early 2008 and worked for a company where industrial action was a breach of contract and would lead to dismissal.

It can at any company. Including Royal Mail.

[Acca Dacca]

To paraphrase Martin Niemoller

First they came for the Drivers allowance, and I did not strike —
Because I was a Walker.

Then they came for the early shift allowance, and I did not strike —
Because I started at 8.

Then they came for the Pensions, and I did not strike—
Because I was not in the scheme.

Then they came for my pay—and there was no one left who wanted to strike with me.

Do you think it is fair that post 2008 employees are in a far shoddier scheme despite doing the same job? The pre-2008 workers let Royal Mail shaft future workers when it came to pensions as it didn't effect them going by your post.

I hear little from colleagues about fighting for a good scheme for ALL - just DBers worried about their own.

At least Dingo has hinted the union want a better UNITED plan for ALL employees which is encouraging

[jetblack]

Do you think it is fair that post 2008 employees are in a far shoddier scheme despite doing the same job? The pre-2008 workers let Royal Mail shaft future workers when it came to pensions as it didn't effect them going by your post.

I hear little from colleagues about fighting for a good scheme for ALL - just DBers worried about their own.

At least Dingo has hinted the union want a better UNITED plan for ALL employees which is encouraging

Complete speculation on my part but I reckon there is a fair chance that any new unified scheme (as hinted at by Dingo but as yet unconfirmed one way or the other) would in fact mean some kind of a loss for those currently in the DB scheme and some kind of a gain for those in the DC scheme. I can't really see how it would realistically be otherwise.
And if this is the case then the current DC sheme members would in fact have more to gain than the DB scheme members.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Do you think it is fair that post 2008 employees are in a far shoddier scheme despite doing the same job? The pre-2008 workers let Royal Mail shaft future workers when it came to pensions as it didn't effect them going by your post.

The pre 2008 workers didn't shaft the post2008 ones. They went on strike in 2007 and 2009, but the Union declared victory "deal of the century" and decoupled pensions from the dispute.

Would I have continued striking, yes, but doing it by myself is more than a little quixotic.

[fishtank]

There is one major difference Acca, those who entered the business after 2010 (yes it was 2010 not 2008 that the DC scheme was introduced) knew when they took the job what the pension situation was so I would like to think they considered that when they decided to accept the job. Those who have joined after 2010 have not seen their pension deteriorate, in fact the union has already negotiated an increase in employee contributions to that scheme.

The only pension that has deteriorated from what was offered at employment start date is the DB scheme, the only pensioners who will be poorer than they thought they would when they started with royal mail are the future DB pensioners. While I understand your frustration at not getting what was on offer before you started I not only won't get what those who started before me got, I won't even get what I was "promised" when I started.

[cloherty1976]

There is one major difference Acca, those who entered the business after 2010 (yes it was 2010 not 2008 that the DC scheme was introduced) knew when they took the job what the pension situation was so I would like to think they considered that when they decided to accept the job. Those who have joined after 2010 have not seen their pension deteriorate, in fact the union has already negotiated an increase in employee contributions to that scheme.

The only pension that has deteriorated from what was offered at employment start date is the DB scheme, the only pensioners who will be poorer than they thought they would when they started with royal mail are the future DB pensioners. While I understand your frustration at not getting what was on offer before you started I not only won't get what those who started before me got, I won't even get what I was "promised" when I started.

Maybe I am wrong but when I first started all I remember is collecting our wages in cash. I don't remember any talk of pension via union or management. Did we get any literature on pension? I can't remember any.

[newbie75]

i see a lot on here in this thread especially mentioning Work to rule, but why is it not implemented enough in DOs?

[Dorset Plodder]

There is one major difference Acca, those who entered the business after 2010 (yes it was 2010 not 2008 that the DC scheme was introduced) knew when they took the job what the pension situation was so I would like to think they considered that when they decided to accept the job. Those who have joined after 2010 have not seen their pension deteriorate, in fact the union has already negotiated an increase in employee contributions to that scheme.

The only pension that has deteriorated from what was offered at employment start date is the DB scheme, the only pensioners who will be poorer than they thought they would when they started with royal mail are the future DB pensioners. While I understand your frustration at not getting what was on offer before you started I not only won't get what those who started before me got, I won't even get what I was "promised" when I started.

Maybe I am wrong but when I first started all I remember is collecting our wages in cash. I don't remember any talk of pension via union or management. Did we get any literature on pension? I can't remember any.

Don't you think that Pensions are normally something that most people don't start thinking about until they've reached their 50th Birthday..ish? I do remember being given advice as a young whippersnapper about getting a Pension sorted, as well as Life Insurance & Savings. But when you're young you just think you're Immortal!

[fly-catchers]

I have almost 28 years of Pension illustrations. It makes for fascinating reading as it goes from positive and forward thinking to things starting to go wrong! The earlier illustration even had a nice chart showing where all the investments were with and how well they were doing! And lots of smiling postmen and their families!

[Lincox]

Absolutely correct Fish. The DB scheme was downgraded in the last changes to a Career Average Earnings Scheme from a Final Salary Scheme. This has the effect of reducing the actual pension by a substantial amount, however the contribution by the employee remains the same.