CWU Referendum

[Justanotherstar]

In

OUT

Shake it all about

[Postie45]

Nostalgia is great but economically, 1975 was awful. You had waves of strikes, inflation at an all-time high, and things got so bad that Britain had to ask the IMF for a bailout the next year.

This is a complex issue and the EU is far, far from great. Still, if the argument is "Let's return to the early 70s," I think I'll pass.

Nobody, certainly not me, is advocating a return to the 70s. We are the 5th largest economy in the world, however our trade agreements are managed by Europe not by the UK. Our economy is growing at a faster rate than the rest of the EU and that is because, despite bankrolling the EU Parliament, we are better and more productive even with the constraints placed on trading. We have stood alone historically and I believe we are a resilient nation with a do or die attitude and we don't need faceless unelected bureaucrats telling us what we can and cannot do and to add insult to injury we pay a hefty price for that privilege.

so youre saying being in the EU isnt really having a negative effect on the UKs economy, in fact it is flourishing.....

[dvbuk55]

so youre saying being in the EU isnt really having a negative effect on the UKs economy, in fact it is flourishing.....

What I am saying is that despite the EU our economy is flourishing and with free trade deals could be even healthier.

[Postie45]

with free trade deals could be even healthier.

sorry i thought you said we should leave the EU

[PistolPete]

“European laws are made by unelected bureaucrats”

Not true. The European Commission doesn’t make laws. It only makes proposals, which are then debated, amended and passed (or rejected) by elected national governments and directly-elected MEPs

and if you think being anti-democratic is having unelected people having an effect on laws for your country rather than your own parliament, then pity the poor Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish, they have 760 of them as opposed to 28.

Or perhaps you do mean bureaucrats, in that case there are as of this year 32,966 people directly employed by the EU Commission to help in its Administration, the UK government has 406,140 civil servants working directly for Whitehall Departments.

I assume the comment in quotation marks was directed at me.

Firstly, take a deep breath and read exactly what I said. I didn't say that laws were made by unelected bureaucrats, I said decisions. If you are going to put forward a credible argument then accuracy is paramount, although it seems the likes of you and your confederates Cameron and Osborne will say almost anything to promote the failed European experiment.

As for the "poor" (try not to be so patronising) Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish, they have their own assemblies and therefore a greater depth of democracy. Democracy is king, never forget that!

[dvbuk55]

with free trade deals could be even healthier.

sorry i thought you said we should leave the EU

Sorry did I confuse you with common sense - yes we should leave the EU.

[Johnrch8]

The CWU are just looking after themselves. They get a lot of handouts from Europe

[geordieboy123]

The CWU are just looking after themselves. They get a lot of handouts from Europe

My god,the future of our country is in the hands of people like you.

In detail what handouts do the CWU get from the EU?

[baldrick]

ive worked under british working laws and eu working laws ,and yes your right some eu laws have been good for workers but if i had to choose i would rather work in the time before the eu.Our standard of livivng is being driven down,and if im honest i probably have less rights now then i ever have,people are being sacked for the most stupid of reasons,zero hour contracts, shop workers 12 hour contracts and working 40 and to be honest in the 70's and 80's the nhs was the best service in the world.So i'll have to disagree with your paper quoting piece but having worked and lived in both before and after i am definately 100% out.

Zero hour contracts, job insecurity, and NHS cuts are not due to the EU. They are due to the neo-liberal monetarist policies started in the Reagan/Thatcher era which have been adopted by most industrialised 'democracies'. Yes, the EU does also encourage privatisation and 'competition' but leaving it doesn't mean that the UK Conservative Government will then abandon monetarism and austerity. Especially as a Brexit vote will lead to a further lurch to the right in the Tory Government. The only hope then would be that after more cuts and attacks on living standards people would realise they had been duped and vote the Tories out in the next General Election.

I voted against joining the Common Market in 1975, as I believed it was only for the interests of big business. I certainly don't agree with everything it does, and it does need reforms, but that can only be done from inside. We will still have to comply with most EU policies if we leave, without any influence, if we want to trade with EU countries.
The reality is that Big Business and multi-national corporations dictate economic policies across Europe and most of the world. We cannot control them as an individual country. They would just move elsewhere if we tried to. The only possible way we might is to work with other countries, that is why I am voting to Remain this time.

[baldrick]

Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish, they have their own assemblies and therefore a greater depth of democracy. Democracy is king, never forget that!

That is another reason I support Remain. If there is a vote for Leaving, it is quite likely that the Scots would demand another independence referendum, which would probably vote to break away from the UK and rejoin the EU.
Scotland has consistently sent a large block of anti-Conservative MPs to Westminster, previously Labour, now SNP. Without them it will be even more difficult, if not impossible, to defeat the Conservatives.
I might have to consider moving to Scotland, except I don't think I would like the weather up there!

[Chewster]

I don't personally see a single EU army ever happening, though you could argue that we are already there with NATO and whatnot. Leaving the EU will not make our UK leaders stay out of our European buddies conflicts, we're already chasing the US into wars, you know, that big country across the pond that we're not tied into an economic union with?

As for talk of a single European police force, that's just plain impossible. Scotland merging all their local police forces into one has been enough of a failure, if Europe, for some mad reason, tried to do the same then it really would be time to grab the torches and pitchforks and have a bit of a revolution, possibly plunging Europe into 100 years of darkness, ruled by City States with anarchist ruled no man's land inbetween and posties being paid a king's ransom just to venture out and deliver Aunt Fanny's birthday card...hold on...am I on to something here?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

“European laws are made by unelected bureaucrats”

Not true. The European Commission doesn’t make laws. It only makes proposals, which are then debated, amended and passed (or rejected) by elected national governments and directly elected MEPs

and if you think being anti-democratic is having unelected people having an effect on laws for your country rather than your own parliament, then pity the poor Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish, they have 760 of them as opposed to 28.

Or perhaps you do mean bureaucrats, in that case, there are as of this year 32,966 people directly employed by the EU Commission to help in its Administration, the UK government has 406,140 civil servants working directly for Whitehall Departments.

I assume the comment in quotation marks was directed at me.

Firstly, take a deep breath and read exactly what I said. I didn't say that laws were made by unelected bureaucrats, I said decisions. If you are going to put forward a credible argument then accuracy is paramount, although it seems the likes of you and your confederates Cameron and Osborne will say almost anything to promote the failed European experiment.

As for the "poor" (try not to be so patronising) Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish, they have their own assemblies and therefore a greater depth of democracy. Democracy is king, never forget that!

Nope it was a generalised comment copied and pasted from http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/europe ... reaucrats/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for the poor, don't be so sensitive. It's a word that I believe fits that particular description. If 28 unelected people making recommendations is undemocratic , then 760 making changes in law who aren't elected that affect those 3 countries that is a poorer level of democracy because their assemblies have only limited powers.

Also, if you want accuracy then your choice of the word "decisions" is also wrong, the unelected portion of the EU can only make recommendations, the decisions are made by the elected bodies.

[dvbuk55]

I don't personally see a single EU army ever happening, though you could argue that we are already there with NATO and whatnot. Leaving the EU will not make our UK leaders stay out of our European buddies conflicts, we're already chasing the US into wars, you know, that big country across the pond that we're not tied into an economic union with?

As for talk of a single European police force, that's just plain impossible. Scotland merging all their local police forces into one has been enough of a failure, if Europe, for some mad reason, tried to do the same then it really would be time to grab the torches and pitchforks and have a bit of a revolution, possibly plunging Europe into 100 years of darkness, ruled by City States with anarchist ruled no man's land inbetween and posties being paid a king's ransom just to venture out and deliver Aunt Fanny's birthday card...hold on...am I on to something here?

You might be with Fanny in the equation.

[fishtank]

The vast majority of people will be making this decision from a position of ignorance due to a lack of transparency from both sides and a media run by people with their own agendas.

The level of ignorance is astounding given the importance of the vote, there are several sure things though, a misty eyed vision of a return to the 1950s is ludicrous, even after a Brexit vote there will be no mass expulsion of immigrants, no sudden flood of wealth, no sudden "return of sovereignty" whatever that means. Laws will not be charged to favour the working man/woman in fact for most of us nothing will change at all.

I think the question I'm asking of the leave voters is what practical things do you expect to change?, sound bites about taking control are really meaningless, we, the working class have never had control and never will so what do you really expect to change?

[t-c]

Daniel Hannan - Why Britain should leave the EU

I dont tend to agree with anything Tory, but Danial Hannan gave the best speech about leaving.

Better than the crap scaremongering bilge from Cameron!

5 Reasons to leave :)
A shorter version...