The truth responds

[k979aaa]

It's not as big a stitch up for pt as first seems. In my office the majority of pt are on a 33 hr contract and get less than £ 3 network proctection. So at present there basic is £286.77( £8.69 per hr). The new basic will be £299.92( £9.09 per hr) they will also get £17 pro rata supplement now take the £3 network protection,they will get £14 for d2d.

It's still not not good but it's not a stich up!

I worked out the new hourly rate by adding two percent to our full time basic and then dividing it by 39

Sorry,i can see your logic that the glass may well be half full,but the supplement is a red herring.
there is one glaring error that without trawling the site,i believe has gone unmentioned,it doesn't appear to say that
you must take 20% each day,but that the onus is on the duty holder to take them over the course of the week.
So in theory,if the Duty holder is struggling Mon-Fri and can only take say 60%,the cover guy will have 40% left to do on saturday(remember this could be 5 or 6 items)plus it doesn't say how many more royal mail could introduce for delivery specifically on saturday?
Pro-rata or not the renumeration will not match the workload.

It is not just a RED HERRING as a KIPPER STUFFED INSIDE ONE AT ANY RATE IT STINKS!.

It does say in the agreemnt that posties can decide how they deliver the d to d's.When i can be bothered I'll trace it to whatever page etc and post it up.

This whole agreement is a sham nothing more nothing less it seeks to say we are being given yet things have been taken away it seeks to justify a one hour reduction in the working week through the capitulation of our unions acceptance of WSM this falls far short of the aspirations of the membership root and branch!. IN SHORT THIS DEAL IS A SELL OUT!.

[viking1488]

It's not as big a stitch up for pt as first seems. In my office the majority of pt are on a 33 hr contract and get less than £ 3 network proctection. So at present there basic is £286.77( £8.69 per hr). The new basic will be £299.92( £9.09 per hr) they will also get £17 pro rata supplement now take the £3 network protection,they will get £14 for d2d.

It's still not not good but it's not a stich up!

I worked out the new hourly rate by adding two percent to our full time basic and then dividing it by 39

Sorry,i can see your logic that the glass may well be half full,but the supplement is a red herring.
there is one glaring error that without trawling the site,i believe has gone unmentioned,it doesn't appear to say that
you must take 20% each day,but that the onus is on the duty holder to take them over the course of the week.
So in theory,if the Duty holder is struggling Mon-Fri and can only take say 60%,the cover guy will have 40% left to do on saturday(remember this could be 5 or 6 items)plus it doesn't say how many more royal mail could introduce for delivery specifically on saturday?
Pro-rata or not the renumeration will not match the workload.

It is not just a RED HERRING as a KIPPER STUFFED INSIDE ONE AT ANY RATE IT STINKS!.

It does say in the agreemnt that posties can decide how they deliver the d to d's.When i can be bothered I'll trace it to whatever page etc and post it up.

This whole agreement is a sham nothing more nothing less it seeks to say we are being given yet things have been taken away it seeks to justify a one hour reduction in the working week though the capitulation of our unions acceptance of WSM this falls far short of the aspirations of the membership root and branch!. IN SHORT THIS DEAL IS A SELL OUT!.

i agree with you there mate its a total sell out

[Cheetah]

Have the union sold us down the river..... in my opinion BIG TIME!!! as they did in seperating the pension issue in 07 (and bragging about it). But i will say we must ALL shoulder part of the blame in the respect of our apathy in voting candidates forward for important jobs on the union.... Only a small percentage of us bother to vote and then others bleat because candidates get in the job with no appreciation of what the job is and negotiate horrendous deals like this!!!! Everyone, when elections come forward read the litterature, speak to local reps who we know we can trust to guide us regarding candidates form, and place your vote!!!! The leadership is so out of touch and so interested in securing their own positions instead of members interests. We must start and take more interest in elections and elect people who have done the job and are aware of the difficulties who will unite behind us, championing a fair deal for workers not documents of which most is about securing their future!!!!

[Big Daz]

I have £280.35 gross each week without DTD, with DTD this proposals take me up to £310.15 by 2012.

2010 296.74
2011 300.72
2012 310.15

I have 472 calls for the purpose of DTD,

A but you will have ten or more each week how much would you get if you had 10 lots last week?.

I wouldnt get 10 lots done in my 30 hour week, under the new system it will be in workload.

[creedscat]

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs.

you are so out of reality it beggars belief, we are struggling with 3 lots of d2ds as it is and you think giving us up to 5 more loads to deal with is the way forward for much less money than 3, when was the last time you done a walk duty ?? do you not realise we are working with heavier workloads than ever, maybe you should try it and see how it is

Is this truth guy having a laff??? Yeh right we want as many D2D shite as we can eh?? f**k me the NHS will go into melt down with the amount of posties in A&E. f***ing slave labour this is and nothing else, and for what exactly?? A pay cut thats what, tell em to stick up thier arses!! VOTE NO!!!

[creedscat]

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs.

you are so out of reality it beggars belief, we are struggling with 3 lots of d2ds as it is and you think giving us up to 5 more loads to deal with is the way forward for much less money than 3, when was the last time you done a walk duty ?? do you not realise we are working with heavier workloads than ever, maybe you should try it and see how it is

Is this truth guy having a laff??? Yeh right we want as many D2D shite as we can eh?? f**k me the NHS will go into melt down with the amount of posties in A&E. f***ing slave labour this is and nothing else, and for what exactly?? A pay cut thats what, tell em to stick up thier arses!! VOTE NO!!!

Now some posters point out that other companies offer bigger payments for door to door , but they dont offer the basic pay this company offers or sick pay , hoiliday pay , pensions etc. Please remember that Royal Mail wanted to just cease door to door payments and include the work into workload without any payments at all.


Hang on a second, thats bollocks and you know it is. Your just clutching at straws there. We are employed by RM to deliver mail. Also like any company you work for you get paid holidays, and as for the pensions most companies do that aswell, the only thing i would praise RM for is paid sick but thats about it. So dont think RM do all this out of the goodness of thier hearts as virtually all companies today do the same infact even smaller companies who dont make anywhere near as much as RM do. D2D's is a totally different thing and we should be paid to do them like any other company would pay to deliver them.

[opgpat]

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs.

Hard to believe this one.

What about protecting our knees, backs and shoulders? What is the good in protecting job numbers at the expense of a massively increased weightload on the posties body? What kind of job is it that you are supposed to be protecting? One that will make the postie have a worklife expectancy of 10 years before he/she has to quit due to bad joints? You will be creating a very streesful working week, a high turnover workforce and thousands of ex workers with bad health and a future of surgery, pain and immobility.

WHAT ABOUT A FAIR AND SAFE WORKLOAD?!!

With d2d at 8 a week ALL rounds will need to be reduced by 30% to remain safe. Will that happen?

[red72]

The truth! wrote:
Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs

I'm sorry but i am speechless by that comment , although its one way to reduce the workforce by killing us off through exhaustion well done cwu.

[andy2007]

I'm sorry The Truth. But I have to disagree with you about the leak. The only criticism I have of whoever leaked it, is that it should have been done earlier. Even if it was less complete. So that we would have the opportunity to provide feedback to the negotiators, to avoid the situation we now find ourselves in.

I have a great deal of respect for the CWU as a whole. Sadly, because of the secrecy clauses, our negotiators seem to be making the same mistakes, over and over again. But that is because the Rank and File are "kept out of the loop". So they're not really aware of what we want them to achieve for us. And of course HQ has made mistakes regarding the suspension of Strikes. But perhaps if they came to us with their reasons for wanting to, before they actually went ahead. We'd be able to deal with these things amicably, rather than feeling let down.

My local and area Reps are IMHO fantastic. I really can't fault them. Which considering that they do all their Union work for free (for those who don't already know. It's only those at HQ who get paid for their Union work) is incredible. I know that there are some "bad apples" here and there. But is there any large organisation which doesn't have a few?
The more people involved. The bigger the risk of getting "wrong 'uns" getting in. It's sad. But it's just a fact of life. And they can always be removed by waiting for the next elections, or by getting a vote of no confidence against them.

El_cartero, why are you assuming that the Mailsort posties (MC/RDC) will be voting for it?
I'm sorry, but you'll need to explain that one to me.

[realmichael]

is there anything in the agreement about stoping the use of private cars on delivery?

[jaja]

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs.

you are so out of reality it beggars belief, we are struggling with 3 lots of d2ds as it is and you think giving us up to 5 more loads to deal with is the way forward for much less money than 3, when was the last time you done a walk duty ?? do you not realise we are working with heavier workloads than ever, maybe you should try it and see how it is

Is this truth guy having a laff??? Yeh right we want as many D2D shite as we can eh?? f**k me the NHS will go into melt down with the amount of posties in A&E. f***ing slave labour this is and nothing else, and for what exactly?? A pay cut thats what, tell em to stick up thier arses!! VOTE NO!!!

SHAFTED.....Again....... more strings attached than a puppet show we will know it when the "mile stones", more like fecking "mill stones around our necks" are reached to trigger any lump sums....but it will be too late by then.....it's a no from me, a load of shite :mfo :cfo :lfo

[jafferpants]

Well guy's i have to say that if there is any truth in the details of this leaked agreement it will be easier to poke melted butter up a porcupines arse with a red hot needle than to get a yes vote

[RichEnigma]

I agree, wait until the full official document is released and then we'll know for sure...

HOWEVER, how ONE missing page is going to fundamentaly change the unofficial agreement that we have seen is beyond me !

And Fundimentaly changing is what we need, because anything like the unofficial document is NOT going to get the thumbs up from the members.

To paraphrase a friend who made a joke in the office this morning after he'd watched the film Blade Runner over the past weekend; maybe the missing page will reveal how Royal Mail plan to replace us all with genetically engineered beings called replicants if we don't accept this agreement? But even if they could, they'd still have to get the f'ing Terminator T-1000 to deliver the monster rounds and excessive amount of DTDs they want us to do.
Hasta la vista, work-life balance!

:cfo :mfo :lfo

[stevie247]

THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHIN BUT THE TRUTH......I just had to respond to "Now what gets me is there are people willing to slag off the union , and calling for its rejection and saying we should go out on strike but seem scared to say to their DOM that I cant finish my delivery and need more hours." What planet are you on the reasons for this is bully boy tactics by DOM'S on performance standards how dare you say that when from my own experience our DOM ignores national ageements on these standards in fact he ignores agreements full stop that is why we balloted for action localy and went on strike will he abide by this ageement my arse.Now anyone who says that a real terms pay cut is a good deal needs to be taken away to the funny farm

[TrueBlueTerrier]

is there anything in the agreement about stoping the use of private cars on delivery?

Yes - when the delivery method changes Private cars will be stopped Unit by Unit.