Extract from the CWU Reps DRP brief - Heavy and Light

[funkflex55]

RM is fighting the market place. If you can do delivery well, there are better-paying, easier jobs out there you can get.

Better than legacy pay? Name them, would be interesting to find out.

I'm also interested to see this. £15.05 is the target and the other jobs must take into account van and fuel costs if they're a thing.

[Perseus]

Paid breaks, shift allowance, 6 weeks holidays after 20 years, 13.6% pension contributions, sick pay. These are all things that need to be considered.

[scotchy1962]

RM is fighting the market place. If you can do delivery well, there are better-paying, easier jobs out there you can get.

What market place? Nobody else does letters?
If it's the parcels you are talking about then i am afraid that's not really applicable.
RM took on the USO when privatisation took place, it isn't something they can turn off and on when it suits or if they deem it unprofitable.
They asked for the changes to the USO and still can't or won't deliver that form of the USO so what says they ever will in any form.
The fight in the market place is all in their mind.
Get enough people and find a way to deliver the USO you have asked for, then once you manage that and it still isn't profitable, then ask for more change, not just we can't get this to work so abandon the letter service.
If you don't want the letters then just say that as well.
People pay for a letter service and it's no longer a cheap choice, RM currently make no effort to deliver that service, anywhere else and any other service they would be hauled over the coals, fined enough to make them sort it out and watchdogs would question them intensely.

[Trumanity]

The basic flaw in any of these models is that it assumes that duties are correctly sized to workload data and that absorption is possible without any systemic failure. It won't work in any office efficiently if too many duties are taken out, on top of a load of new builds and current parcel volumes.

The easy savings were made years ago in making duties bigger and it's the law of diminishing returns when you try to run a business with fewer full-time experienced staff whilst still expecting more productivity when overtime has been reduced. All you get are exponential QoS failures as staff burnout, sickness increases and attrition increases (particularly on new entrants).

At which point any extra "cost cutting" becomes counterproductive and simply destroys operational stability. None of RM's future projected savings will ever materialise in reality when what they have initially saved on oversized duties and increased workloads, they lose it back in inefficiency and instability.

The workload data is flawed everywhere. No model will work. What is important is to identify the worst, most destructive model. Then by executive action, they will exact the most devastating collapse of the USO, forcing the government to act. Letters are taken away, postmen are let go in their thousands, contracts are torn up, parcel routes are franchised to gig economy fruit pickers, vans are sold off, no pay, no sick pay, no pension, no uniform and all that beautiful estate is freed up for sale. Royal Mail will be morphed into GLS. Daniel makes a fortune.

People keep saying about the Govt taking on the letter side and the real estate being freed up for sale without thinking about what current infrastructure the Government would need ( and GLS or whoever it would be would need ) to continue to operate - its not as simple as how youve put it.

I am talking in the broadest terms about motive. What are the motives for the chaos we are experiencing? Again in simple terms, Daniel owes around 6 Billion £ for the takeover. The estate is worth at least 8 Billion £ undeveloped. I'm also not saying GLS would take on letters. GLS is the most profitable part of EP Group. Why?

[Valentina@1]

So another 2 weeks of talks until we told RM steamrolling ahead with ODM.

[Acca Dacca]

The basic flaw in any of these models is that it assumes that duties are correctly sized to workload data and that absorption is possible without any systemic failure. It won't work in any office efficiently if too many duties are taken out, on top of a load of new builds and current parcel volumes.

The easy savings were made years ago in making duties bigger and it's the law of diminishing returns when you try to run a business with fewer full-time experienced staff whilst still expecting more productivity when overtime has been reduced. All you get are exponential QoS failures as staff burnout, sickness increases and attrition increases (particularly on new entrants).

At which point any extra "cost cutting" becomes counterproductive and simply destroys operational stability. None of RM's future projected savings will ever materialise in reality when what they have initially saved on oversized duties and increased workloads, they lose it back in inefficiency and instability.

The workload data is flawed everywhere. No model will work. What is important is to identify the worst, most destructive model. Then by executive action, they will exact the most devastating collapse of the USO, forcing the government to act. Letters are taken away, postmen are let go in their thousands, contracts are torn up, parcel routes are franchised to gig economy fruit pickers, vans are sold off, no pay, no sick pay, no pension, no uniform and all that beautiful estate is freed up for sale. Royal Mail will be morphed into GLS. Daniel makes a fortune.

People keep saying about the Govt taking on the letter side and the real estate being freed up for sale without thinking about what current infrastructure the Government would need ( and GLS or whoever it would be would need ) to continue to operate - its not as simple as how youve put it.

I am talking in the broadest terms about motive. What are the motives for the chaos we are experiencing? Again in simple terms, Daniel owes around 6 Billion £ for the takeover. The estate is worth at least 8 Billion £ undeveloped. I'm also not saying GLS would take on letters. GLS is the most profitable part of EP Group. Why?

Youve misunderstood

Im saying if the Government took on letters and GLS took the parcel side - then who keeps what infrastructure?

Both would still need hubs/DOs/mail centres whatever you want to call them in order to operate.

[postmanplod2026]

if the cwu are saying that managers could put u on any duties with their models, this is already been happening for years now, new starts taking nice duties available while the more experienced get punted round as reserves, so cwu ur scare tactics dont wash, u already dont help the now, this is nothing new people can see through the usual scare tactics, waste of money

[Trumanity]

The basic flaw in any of these models is that it assumes that duties are correctly sized to workload data and that absorption is possible without any systemic failure. It won't work in any office efficiently if too many duties are taken out, on top of a load of new builds and current parcel volumes.

The easy savings were made years ago in making duties bigger and it's the law of diminishing returns when you try to run a business with fewer full-time experienced staff whilst still expecting more productivity when overtime has been reduced. All you get are exponential QoS failures as staff burnout, sickness increases and attrition increases (particularly on new entrants).

At which point any extra "cost cutting" becomes counterproductive and simply destroys operational stability. None of RM's future projected savings will ever materialise in reality when what they have initially saved on oversized duties and increased workloads, they lose it back in inefficiency and instability.

The workload data is flawed everywhere. No model will work. What is important is to identify the worst, most destructive model. Then by executive action, they will exact the most devastating collapse of the USO, forcing the government to act. Letters are taken away, postmen are let go in their thousands, contracts are torn up, parcel routes are franchised to gig economy fruit pickers, vans are sold off, no pay, no sick pay, no pension, no uniform and all that beautiful estate is freed up for sale. Royal Mail will be morphed into GLS. Daniel makes a fortune.

People keep saying about the Govt taking on the letter side and the real estate being freed up for sale without thinking about what current infrastructure the Government would need ( and GLS or whoever it would be would need ) to continue to operate - its not as simple as how youve put it.

I am talking in the broadest terms about motive. What are the motives for the chaos we are experiencing? Again in simple terms, Daniel owes around 6 Billion £ for the takeover. The estate is worth at least 8 Billion £ undeveloped. I'm also not saying GLS would take on letters. GLS is the most profitable part of EP Group. Why?

Youve misunderstood

Im saying if the Government took on letters and GLS took the parcel side - then who keeps what infrastructure?

Both would still need hubs/DOs/mail centres whatever you want to call them in order to operate.

Self employed drivers go to the Mail hubs for their parcels. An UK equivalent to Denmark's dao (https://dao.as/en/) will deliver letters. How about InPost (based at SAINSBURY'S), Daniel has a big stake in Sainsbury's. Mail centre's and DO's are gone.

[Trumanity]

The basic flaw in any of these models is that it assumes that duties are correctly sized to workload data and that absorption is possible without any systemic failure. It won't work in any office efficiently if too many duties are taken out, on top of a load of new builds and current parcel volumes.

The easy savings were made years ago in making duties bigger and it's the law of diminishing returns when you try to run a business with fewer full-time experienced staff whilst still expecting more productivity when overtime has been reduced. All you get are exponential QoS failures as staff burnout, sickness increases and attrition increases (particularly on new entrants).

At which point any extra "cost cutting" becomes counterproductive and simply destroys operational stability. None of RM's future projected savings will ever materialise in reality when what they have initially saved on oversized duties and increased workloads, they lose it back in inefficiency and instability.

The workload data is flawed everywhere. No model will work. What is important is to identify the worst, most destructive model. Then by executive action, they will exact the most devastating collapse of the USO, forcing the government to act. Letters are taken away, postmen are let go in their thousands, contracts are torn up, parcel routes are franchised to gig economy fruit pickers, vans are sold off, no pay, no sick pay, no pension, no uniform and all that beautiful estate is freed up for sale. Royal Mail will be morphed into GLS. Daniel makes a fortune.

People keep saying about the Govt taking on the letter side and the real estate being freed up for sale without thinking about what current infrastructure the Government would need ( and GLS or whoever it would be would need ) to continue to operate - its not as simple as how youve put it.

I am talking in the broadest terms about motive. What are the motives for the chaos we are experiencing? Again in simple terms, Daniel owes around 6 Billion £ for the takeover. The estate is worth at least 8 Billion £ undeveloped. I'm also not saying GLS would take on letters. GLS is the most profitable part of EP Group. Why?

Youve misunderstood

Im saying if the Government took on letters and GLS took the parcel side - then who keeps what infrastructure?

Both would still need hubs/DOs/mail centres whatever you want to call them in order to operate.

Self employed drivers go to the Mail hubs for their parcels. An UK equivalent to Denmark's dao (https://dao.as/en/) will deliver letters. How about InPost (based at SAINSBURY'S), Daniel has a big stake in Sainsbury's. Mail centre's and DO's are gone.

This is where the money is flowing. When you shop, you bleep! When you post, you bleep!

[Acca Dacca]

The basic flaw in any of these models is that it assumes that duties are correctly sized to workload data and that absorption is possible without any systemic failure. It won't work in any office efficiently if too many duties are taken out, on top of a load of new builds and current parcel volumes.

The easy savings were made years ago in making duties bigger and it's the law of diminishing returns when you try to run a business with fewer full-time experienced staff whilst still expecting more productivity when overtime has been reduced. All you get are exponential QoS failures as staff burnout, sickness increases and attrition increases (particularly on new entrants).

At which point any extra "cost cutting" becomes counterproductive and simply destroys operational stability. None of RM's future projected savings will ever materialise in reality when what they have initially saved on oversized duties and increased workloads, they lose it back in inefficiency and instability.

The workload data is flawed everywhere. No model will work. What is important is to identify the worst, most destructive model. Then by executive action, they will exact the most devastating collapse of the USO, forcing the government to act. Letters are taken away, postmen are let go in their thousands, contracts are torn up, parcel routes are franchised to gig economy fruit pickers, vans are sold off, no pay, no sick pay, no pension, no uniform and all that beautiful estate is freed up for sale. Royal Mail will be morphed into GLS. Daniel makes a fortune.

People keep saying about the Govt taking on the letter side and the real estate being freed up for sale without thinking about what current infrastructure the Government would need ( and GLS or whoever it would be would need ) to continue to operate - its not as simple as how youve put it.

I am talking in the broadest terms about motive. What are the motives for the chaos we are experiencing? Again in simple terms, Daniel owes around 6 Billion £ for the takeover. The estate is worth at least 8 Billion £ undeveloped. I'm also not saying GLS would take on letters. GLS is the most profitable part of EP Group. Why?

Youve misunderstood

Im saying if the Government took on letters and GLS took the parcel side - then who keeps what infrastructure?

Both would still need hubs/DOs/mail centres whatever you want to call them in order to operate.

Self employed drivers go to the Mail hubs for their parcels. An UK equivalent to Denmark's dao (https://dao.as/en/) will deliver letters. How about InPost (based at SAINSBURY'S), Daniel has a big stake in Sainsbury's. Mail centre's and DO's are gone.

That doesnt answer what current infrastructure will be used by the letter side. There are still what 5 billion or so letters a year being sent?

Could every parcel be processed, stored and easily delivered from the hubs for the entire country right now?

[TopperGas]

The basic flaw in any of these models is that it assumes that duties are correctly sized to workload data and that absorption is possible without any systemic failure. It won't work in any office efficiently if too many duties are taken out, on top of a load of new builds and current parcel volumes.

The easy savings were made years ago in making duties bigger and it's the law of diminishing returns when you try to run a business with fewer full-time experienced staff whilst still expecting more productivity when overtime has been reduced. All you get are exponential QoS failures as staff burnout, sickness increases and attrition increases (particularly on new entrants).

At which point any extra "cost cutting" becomes counterproductive and simply destroys operational stability. None of RM's future projected savings will ever materialise in reality when what they have initially saved on oversized duties and increased workloads, they lose it back in inefficiency and instability.

The workload data is flawed everywhere. No model will work. What is important is to identify the worst, most destructive model. Then by executive action, they will exact the most devastating collapse of the USO, forcing the government to act. Letters are taken away, postmen are let go in their thousands, contracts are torn up, parcel routes are franchised to gig economy fruit pickers, vans are sold off, no pay, no sick pay, no pension, no uniform and all that beautiful estate is freed up for sale. Royal Mail will be morphed into GLS. Daniel makes a fortune.

People keep saying about the Govt taking on the letter side and the real estate being freed up for sale without thinking about what current infrastructure the Government would need ( and GLS or whoever it would be would need ) to continue to operate - its not as simple as how youve put it.

I am talking in the broadest terms about motive. What are the motives for the chaos we are experiencing? Again in simple terms, Daniel owes around 6 Billion £ for the takeover. The estate is worth at least 8 Billion £ undeveloped. I'm also not saying GLS would take on letters. GLS is the most profitable part of EP Group. Why?

Youve misunderstood

Im saying if the Government took on letters and GLS took the parcel side - then who keeps what infrastructure?

Both would still need hubs/DOs/mail centres whatever you want to call them in order to operate.

Self employed drivers go to the Mail hubs for their parcels. An UK equivalent to Denmark's dao (https://dao.as/en/) will deliver letters. How about InPost (based at SAINSBURY'S), Daniel has a big stake in Sainsbury's. Mail centre's and DO's are gone.

Inpost have just been bought by Fed who are owned by EVRi's former Private Equity investors! I sense sooner or later DK is going to do similar to that he did in the Netherlands, suggest that the USO is not viable in its present form, possibly whilst highlighting the CWU are refusing to accept the ODM changes, and he needs £xm of Government funding if they want regular mail deliveries, given the mess Labour are in at the moment they may even agree to pay?

[buchanpeter]

Paid breaks, shift allowance, 6 weeks holidays after 20 years, 13.6% pension contributions, sick pay. These are all things that need to be considered.

Think i calculated a while back that u'd need to make £38k in gross as self employed to get the same wages as what Royal Mail pay you.(Outside of London).
Like u say Holidays, Sick Pay, Pension. All adds up.
With the current pay deal in place and assuming it gets honoured we could be looking at 3% payrise.
Due to inflation shooting past 3% in April.
That would put the OPG pay at around £15.49ph
If u have any addons to that like PHG or ICS supplement ur looking at closer to £16ph
Legacy Payements is what its been called the past 10 years or so.

[Perseus]

Paid breaks, shift allowance, 6 weeks holidays after 20 years, 13.6% pension contributions, sick pay. These are all things that need to be considered.

Think i calculated a while back that u'd need to make £38k in gross as self employed to get the same wages as what Royal Mail pay you.(Outside of London).
Like u say Holidays, Sick Pay, Pension. All adds up.
With the current pay deal in place and assuming it gets honoured we could be looking at 3% payrise.
Due to inflation shooting past 3% in April.
That would put the OPG pay at around £15.49ph
If u have any addons to that like PHG or ICS supplement ur looking at closer to £16ph
Legacy Payements is what its been called the past 10 years or so.

I agree, it's why I always take some posts that people say about better pay with a pinch of salt. A 'legacy' contract full time, generally works 33hr 40 mins a week after breaks and with delivery supplement, you'd need to earn over £17 an hour elsewhere to beat that. That's hard facts.

[SMS1969]

Paid breaks, shift allowance, 6 weeks holidays after 20 years, 13.6% pension contributions, sick pay. These are all things that need to be considered.

Think i calculated a while back that u'd need to make £38k in gross as self employed to get the same wages as what Royal Mail pay you.(Outside of London).
Like u say Holidays, Sick Pay, Pension. All adds up.
With the current pay deal in place and assuming it gets honoured we could be looking at 3% payrise.
Due to inflation shooting past 3% in April.
That would put the OPG pay at around £15.49ph
If u have any addons to that like PHG or ICS supplement ur looking at closer to £16ph
Legacy Payements is what its been called the past 10 years or so.

I agree, it's why I always take some posts that people say about better pay with a pinch of salt. A 'legacy' contract full time, generally works 33hr 40 mins a week after breaks and with delivery supplement, you'd need to earn over £17 an hour elsewhere to beat that. That's hard facts.

All correct, yet there are some who state that legacy contracts are barely above minimum wage, absolute nonsense.

[Woody84]

if the cwu are saying that managers could put u on any duties with their models, this is already been happening for years now, new starts taking nice duties available while the more experienced get punted round as reserves, so cwu ur scare tactics dont wash, u already dont help the now, this is nothing new people can see through the usual scare tactics, waste of money

Not in the office I’m at.