Update from Terry Pullinger

[k979aaa]

Do I smell a new "Deal of the Century" which will end up as beneficial to the members as the last one. I'm sure someone will correct me and I know that this is not concluded yet but has these negotiations taken longer this time?

Century of course you mean Millennium everything has to be bigger and better except pensions working conditions and industrial relations on the work floor I despair at the future as the present is too much too bare as it stands!

[Mister T]

Looks like Network drivers will not get a reduced working week and will get a lump sum to compensate, still no news what percentage pay rise were getting or is that still under 'development' . I'm sure the mediator proposed 2.5% for year 1and 2% for year 2, I think Friday to some degree was a little disappointing and could have done with more meat on the bones.

[Alain Prost]

Any update on fleet?

[Mister T]

Any update on fleet?

The only mention on fleet is that they joined the talks at a later stage, it's like Network your a forgotten part of the operation.

[Martin Walsh]

Fleet will have the same pay rise as the rest of Royal Mail Group and Parcelforce.

Network and Professional Drivers already have less than a 39 hour working week as they do not have paid meal reliefs. INetwork and Professional Drivers in Mail Centres
will get an extra 2.6% pay rise based on the hour reduction. However there are discussions about reintroducing paid meal reliefs so it depends on how successful this is.

[bolton1969]

So when are we actually going to get this document that’s going to give all the details about a proposed deal.

[cloherty1976]

Fleet will have the same pay rise as the rest of Royal Mail Group and Parcelforce.

Network and Professional Drivers already have less than a 39 hour working week as they do not have paid meal reliefs. INetwork and Professional Drivers in Mail Centres
will get an extra 2.6% pay rise based on the hour reduction. However there are discussions about reintroducing paid meal reliefs so it depends on how successful this is.

Wow if that's right we will get maybe 5% for 2017 and than when April 2018 goes on that's like a £3000 rise.

[Mister T]

So when are we actually going to get this document that’s going to give all the details about a proposed deal.

I'm thinking the same, its dragging on.

[hubbahubba]

My guess is both sides are happy with the deal they've agreed amongst themselves,the hard part is dressing it up to get us to agree it!

[citypostie]

My guess is both sides are happy with the deal they've agreed amongst themselves,the hard part is dressing it up to get us to agree it!

I think you're bang on the money there

[Sugar]

My guess is both sides are happy with the deal they've agreed amongst themselves,the hard part is dressing it up to get us to agree it!

They can dress it up as much as they like but if they'res a change to finishing times and no ceasing of bullying and harassment that's rife in DO's and the excessive uneven workloads we face each day its still a big fat NO vote from me.

[fishtank]

My guess is both sides are happy with the deal they've agreed amongst themselves,the hard part is dressing it up to get us to agree it!

They can dress it up as much as they like but if they'res a change to finishing times and no ceasing of bullying and harassment that's rife in DO's and the excessive uneven workloads we face each day its still a big fat NO vote from me.

You're going to vote no to any deal that's put on the table then.

There will be some changes to some finish times in some DOs, that's inevitable but it will be up to each office to force the business to show a genuine case to do so. We can't say across 1500 delivery offices that no office should move its times. Some offices are already struggling with their feeds from their mailcentre. What the union has to do is mitigste the impact of these changes and force the business into making a case for change rather than just an across the board move. Worst case scenario you would be looking at 30 minutes on some days, not all.

No national agreement can cease bullying or even out workload on an individual office basis, all an agreement can do is address these issues and give the rep and office the tools to deal with it along with a level of oversight at area and national level.

If an agreement said "we, Royal Mail promise not to bully and harass staff and we promise to make all the duties even and achievable" would that alone change anything? We've had those kind of words before in agreements and nothing changed. Personally that wouldn't make me want to accept an agreement. Those are just words, bullying and harassment has to be stopped initially at local level, what's missing is oversight.

Q.Why are some unit reps not dealing with B&H and workload issues?
A. No oversight from Area reps.
Q Why are some Area reps not dealing with unit reps who are not dealing with these issues?
A. No oversight from Divisional reps.
Q. Why are some Divisional reps not dealing with Area reps etc.
A. No oversight from national officers.

There is an mind set in the union that it should always be bottom up accountability and if someone has been voted in by members they cannot be criticised because it's undemocratic and it's up to the members to remove a bad rep. That doesn't wash with me, the union needs much more top down accountability, these reps don't just represent the members who voted for them they represent the entire organisation if not the entire union movement and if they're not prepared to do that properly then the area rep or the divisional rep or the national officers need to step in and find out why.

[SpacePhoenix]

There will be some changes to some finish times in some DOs, that's inevitable but it will be up to each office to force the business to show a genuine case to do so. We can't say across 1500 delivery offices that no office should move its times. Some offices are already struggling with their feeds from their mailcentre. What the union has to do is mitigste the impact of these changes and force the business into making a case for change rather than just an across the board move. Worst case scenario you would be looking at 30 minutes on some days, not all.

I think that you're more likely to be looking at 1hr+ once the shorter weeks come in, depening on if each hour less is taken off 1 day of the week or spread over several days. Some DO runs will possibly catch the rush hour traffic so could be even latter arrving at the DOs. It wouldn't surprise me to long term to see RM axe all runs to DOs before 06:00 so cut down on shift allowances for drivers (@any distribution drivers - (those who do MC to DO runs) what shift allowances are there if any atm?)

[Sugar]

You're going to vote no to any deal that's put on the table then.

There will be some changes to some finish times in some DOs, that's inevitable but it will be up to each office to force the business to show a genuine case to do so. We can't say across 1500 delivery offices that no office should move its times. Some offices are already struggling with their feeds from their mailcentre. What the union has to do is mitigate the impact of these changes and force the business into making a case for change rather than just an across the board move. Worst case scenario you would be looking at 30 minutes on some days, not all.

No national agreement can cease bullying or even out workload on an individual office basis, all an agreement can do is address these issues and give the rep and office the tools to deal with it along with a level of oversight at area and national level.

If an agreement said "we, Royal Mail promise not to bully and harass staff and we promise to make all the duties even and achievable" would that alone change anything? We've had those kind of words before in agreements and nothing changed. Personally, that wouldn't make me want to accept an agreement. Those are just words, bullying and harassment has to be stopped initially at local level, what's missing is oversight.

Q.Why are some unit reps not dealing with B&H and workload issues?
A. No oversight from Area reps.
Q Why are some Area reps not dealing with unit reps who are not dealing with these issues?
A. No oversight from Divisional reps.
Q. Why are some Divisional reps not dealing with Area reps etc.
A. No oversight from national officers.

There is an mind set in the union that it should always be bottom up accountability and if someone has been voted in by members they cannot be criticised because it's undemocratic and it's up to the members to remove a bad rep. That doesn't wash with me, the union needs much more top down accountability, these reps don't just represent the members who voted for them they represent the entire organisation if not the entire union movement and if they're not prepared to do that properly then the area rep or the divisional rep or the national officers need to step in and find out why.

Thousands out there are already struggling to get to after work commitments now never mind pushing offices to a 3.30 finish (ours is 3pm currently) it will make the school run near impossible to do which leaves parents with the only option of after school clubs and the cost of those each day will wipe out any pay rise they offer.

As for the B&H issue I know of individuals at our DO who were in contact with union HQ over a long running B&H issue and HQ admitted they're was pretty much nothing they could do under the current terms to force RM in to investigating their problems, they could only keep bringing it to RM's attention that the issues were not getting sorted. I even had an ex manager admit that it was common practise to keep delaying grievances etc for a few months then just throw them in the bin once the individual got fed up of trying to get it sorted.

[cloherty1976]

My guess is both sides are happy with the deal they've agreed amongst themselves,the hard part is dressing it up to get us to agree it!

They can dress it up as much as they like but if they'res a change to finishing times and no ceasing of bullying and harassment that's rife in DO's and the excessive uneven workloads we face each day its still a big fat NO vote from me.

You're going to vote no to any deal that's put on the table then.

There will be some changes to some finish times in some DOs, that's inevitable but it will be up to each office to force the business to show a genuine case to do so. We can't say across 1500 delivery offices that no office should move its times. Some offices are already struggling with their feeds from their mailcentre. What the union has to do is mitigste the impact of these changes and force the business into making a case for change rather than just an across the board move. Worst case scenario you would be looking at 30 minutes on some days, not all.

No national agreement can cease bullying or even out workload on an individual office basis, all an agreement can do is address these issues and give the rep and office the tools to deal with it along with a level of oversight at area and national level.

If an agreement said "we, Royal Mail promise not to bully and harass staff and we promise to make all the duties even and achievable" would that alone change anything? We've had those kind of words before in agreements and nothing changed. Personally that wouldn't make me want to accept an agreement. Those are just words, bullying and harassment has to be stopped initially at local level, what's missing is oversight.

Q.Why are some unit reps not dealing with B&H and workload issues?
A. No oversight from Area reps.
Q Why are some Area reps not dealing with unit reps who are not dealing with these issues?
A. No oversight from Divisional reps.
Q. Why are some Divisional reps not dealing with Area reps etc.
A. No oversight from national officers.

There is an mind set in the union that it should always be bottom up accountability and if someone has been voted in by members they cannot be criticised because it's undemocratic and it's up to the members to remove a bad rep. That doesn't wash with me, the union needs much more top down accountability, these reps don't just represent the members who voted for them they represent the entire organisation if not the entire union movement and if they're not prepared to do that properly then the area rep or the divisional rep or the national officers need to step in and find out why.

Surely it's the same as voting yes when the union tells you