Clocking-in machines

[rambo1]

to be honest who gives a s**t if they do , if you have nothing to hide and you work ALL your paid hour or genuine o/t then no problem , BUT if your sat at home on pay or ghosting o/t then tough s**t , sooner the better.

[recrinu]

i hope they do, i am sick of hearing all the moaners they can't finish their job but then they come back 3 hours early.

[worktotime]

i hope they do, i am sick of hearing all the moaners they can't finish their job but then they come back 3 hours early.

, to right.

[Martin Walsh]

Every DOM , every DSM , Every Director and every senior manager already has access to PDA actuals of all staff in their office including the route they take , where they stop and when the PDA is switched on and off.

During the negotiations on the four pillars they have already stated they had mapped every walk in the UK over a week and 46% of walks were finishing based on the PDA more than 20 mins early , 20% were going beyond time by over 20 mins and the remaining Percentage was within 20 mins either way of their finishing time.

The trial which has now been agreed by Royal Mail and the CWU is to verify how accurate this data is by examining for the offices within the trial. Part of this will be that Royal Mail would like to advirtise new products within a new window for delivery in a similar way to DPD but longer than the 15 Minuite window advirtised by DPD.

There are safeguards within the trial but the reality is that Royal Mail could decide to use this information without union agreement as they have invested millions into it. Hence why the CWU needs to examine in an handful of offices how accurate the PDA actuals are.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

They have even stated that if someone does not want to do absorbtion than fine they will pay them less and only for the hours worked. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=77836&p=753621&hilit=PDA+data#p753621

An interesting point that dingo made. So what if someone else does deliver the absorption but ends up working half an hour over. Do they get paid overtime for working half an hour over?

Yes, they'll have to because they based not paying for the lapsing and only paying the hours worked based on the PDA output, ergo they have to pay you if you go over as its the same source The only caveat I would add is that you'd have to make sure you took your break so that the output is accurate. If you don't it could muddy the waters.

[fishtank]

the reality is that Royal Mail could decide to use this information without union agreement as they have invested millions into it.

I wouldn't push that line too much dingo, the reality is royal mail could do anything without union agreement no matter how much they've invested in anything IF the union is prepared to stand by and accept it. The question is should the union do anything about this not can it.

What we both know is that their data is flawed from the beginning, the PDA actuals only track the position of the PDA and any event, they don't tell you when a duty is due to finish ( we have multiple duty finish times in our office), whether there are still end of delivery tasks to complete or whether that member of staff still has part of their meal relief to take.

This is using incomplete data to build a false picture, if royal mail wants a genuine picture of when staff are finishing they can invest in the correct time keeping equipment ( a swipe card system when staff are actually leaving the office) and perhaps make sure their managers are around when our members are finishing.

[fishtank]

And just as an aside if royal mail wants to have any kind of workable delivery window for customers they will need to change the specification for special delivery.

My delivery gets done differently depending on where on the delivery the specials are and whether I'll get there before 12.45, trying to implement a delivery window in those circumstances is ridiculous. Please let them know if you get the chance.

[SpacePhoenix]

And just as an aside if royal mail wants to have any kind of workable delivery window for customers they will need to change the specification for special delivery.

My delivery gets done differently depending on where on the delivery the specials are and whether I'll get there before 12.45, trying to implement a delivery window in those circumstances is ridiculous. Please let them know if you get the chance.

I think that's part of the idea of all parcels having 2D barcodes and all flats and letters (eventually) being seqeuenced together. The system will know what you've got for your walk and it'll plan your route for you.

[fishtank]

And just as an aside if royal mail wants to have any kind of workable delivery window for customers they will need to change the specification for special delivery.

My delivery gets done differently depending on where on the delivery the specials are and whether I'll get there before 12.45, trying to implement a delivery window in those circumstances is ridiculous. Please let them know if you get the chance.

I think that's part of the idea of all parcels having 2D barcodes and all flats and letters (eventually) being seqeuenced together. The system will know what you've got for your walk and it'll plan your route for you.

That's not really feasible and to be honest pointless. We've seen how badly a computer program can plan a delivery route, unlike a driving delivery route which is relatively simple an efficient walking delivery would involve manual intervention every time it spewed out a delivery route. It was bad enough planning a revision based on computer generated routes but to do it on a daily basis would be ridiculous. To give consistent daily delivery windows it would be far easier to keep the delivery route as consistent as possible and change the specification on special delivery to 3pm.

Of course if there's a pointless, stupid and costly way to do things royal mail will try to find it.

[SpacePhoenix]

If RM intend on moving the pipeline back 2 hours, they'll have to axe 9am specials as they won't have a hope in hell of getting any of them delivered by 9am, they'd probably not reach the DOs by 9am with the pipeline moved back 2hrs

[oypostie]

So which week did Royal Mail carry out these checks on ? Knowing Royal Mail a vey quiet summer week

[ScousePostie]

RM could almost be guaranteed that hardly anyone would be willing to do overtime if clocking-in machines are introduced. Ghosting overtime is probably the only reason most do overtime.

[fishtank]

Just to throw something else into the mix...We keep hearing that royal mail only want to pay you for the hours you work but has anyone looked into the legal implications of paying someone less than their contracted hours?

I can see their point when it comes to overtime, they don't have to pay you overtime if you haven't actually worked it but it's implied with a 39 hr contract that the employer has to provide you with 39 hrs work. If they do and you complete that work they are obliged to pay you 39 hrs pay even if it takes 37 hrs. They can of course provide you with more work but I would doubt they can lawfully get away with using PDA actuals to reduce your contracted pay to 37 hrs. The obvious conclusion would be that this is about reducing overtime not really anything to do with "fairness" or balance.

[daveyeff]

if we are working less than the 39 hrs as they claim most of us are then they can have no argument of moving to a 35 week then