Strikes are coming

[britwrit]

King Eric the union is looking for united scheme going forward which has the same benefits for all ! So everyone will benefit if they fight not just those employed pre 2008.

Well mate,this needs to be shouted from the rooftops because if we are to get anywhere with this,we need as many people on board as possible!

I browse this board fairly often & reckon i'm more clued up than your average postie on what's going on & this is the first i've heard about a united scheme to benefit us all.

Yeah. If there is going to be a strike, now is when it's going to be won or lost. Explain to the membership what the union is aiming for (and explain it and explain it again, because folks are busy and might not read a flyer or a poster or something put on the notice board.)

[rubberbond]

On the one hand people on here moan about how many guys start early and cut the job up and then they dream about some kind of work to rule where fantasy posties are bringing back half a walk.

Get a grip ffs.
If you don't have the courage to put up a fight to save your terms and conditions just admit it, don't look for a get out clause.

It's imperative that a stand is made for terms and conditions that have been fought for,if they take the pension, you can guarantee that S/A payments,sick pay, A/L, will be next and they will be emboldened to do it. That will spell the end for the union if that happens,the business alreadybrides roughshod over agreements made previously,so why believe them now.

[postslippete]

Most guys that work in our office tend to "live today, forget tomorrow". In fact most of them don't appear that bothered about the pensions. What they are more bothered about is any radical changes to our hours and shift patterns as well as losing sick pay benefits, A/L and S/A payments etc. as rubberbond mentioned.

And also what is equally worrying about any strike now is the Trade Union Bill which came out 2015-16 which demands that a minimum 50% turnout is needed for a strike, that employers could now have 2 weeks notice of impending strike action and that this would give them more than sufficient time to bring in agency staff to cover for striking workers and help break strike action.

[tpost]

To be honest we are in a no win situation.If we strike RM will lose business and jobs will be lost, if we don't fight we will lose many of the benefits we have built up over the years.

[rubberbond]

The only way you win a dispute is by striking and unity.

+1

The only way to lose a dispute is by being divided.

The workforce is already divided as those who started after 2008 aren't affected by these changes. Those staff members are already on those worse pensions.

Work to rile sounds good. But how do you tell a guy who has a family to feed and is on a 20hour contract but has been working 40hours a week for a year or more to work to rule, to help those who have the better pensions. It won't benefit them in the slightest and will actually leave them way out of pocket.

So how does he survive when he's on leave,or sick? They did this work to rule in Corby,I think ,if i remember rightly from another thread sometime ago and they got what they set out to,achieve,the key is to stick together,which is the biggest weakness.

[fishtank]

As dingo pointed out a work to rule is easily broken by management, all they need to do is pick someone, tell them to do something outside the terms of the work to rule then when they refuse, send them home with no pay. Then the poor bugger is looking over his shoulder to see who has his back. Some offices will walk, others sadly won't.

Some people on here don't seem to understand the difference between a work to rule and an overtime ban.

[Dorset Plodder]

Work to rile sounds good. But how do you tell a guy who has a family to feed and is on a 20hour contract but has been working 40hours a week for a year or more to work to rule, to help those who have the better pensions. It won't benefit them in the slightest and will actually leave them way out of pocket.

Whenever Full Timers start talking about only working your contracted hours I always say, "That's fine if you're on 39 hours but what about someone on a 20 hour contract"? I don't think some people realise how hard it is to make ends meet on £150 a week!

[Lincox]

I cannot be certain but I recall that agency staff cannot be brought in to replace workers on an official strike. I would imagine it would be impossible for RM to do this on a large scale anyway, particularly on delivery and collections, it takes at least a month to get accustomed to working in delivery, there would be so many problems and insufficient and useless front line managers to support an untrained work force.

[LouBarlow]

Going from defined benefit to defined contribution pensions is common across all industries. Defined benefit is such a huge financial burden on firms, especially as people live so long past retirement age. This is financial prudence. After all, if its unaffordable, and RM does down because of it, where will the money come from to pay out? Before I got a job as a postie and I was looking for work, I didn't see a single company offering a defined benefit pension scheme.

Defined benefit pensions are from the days when people expected to retire mid 60's, live a handful more years, maybe another 5 - 10 years and then shuffle off. Now people are regularly living 20, 25 years beyond retirement it just isn't affordable. Its not beyond reason that you work 30 years and then get 30 years pension payouts. If its defined benefit, how can paying someone who isn't working for 30 years be financially viable for any firm?

You obviously missed the part where the Royal Mail pension scheme has a £1.8 billion surplus?

[Dorset Plodder]

Defined benefit pensions are from the days when people expected to retire mid 60's, live a handful more years, maybe another 5 - 10 years and then shuffle off. Now people are regularly living 20, 25 years beyond retirement it just isn't affordable. Its not beyond reason that you work 30 years and then get 30 years pension payouts. If its defined benefit, how can paying someone who isn't working for 30 years be financially viable for any firm?

I'm sure the Pension age changes will rectify part of this problem. I'm probably looking at working until I'm 70 (government say 67 anyway). Can't bet on more than 15 years with my feet up. The National Average Life Expectancy for men is 85.

I know we're not exactly breaking rocks but I expect a lot of Posties will be suffering in old age due to demands of the job. The main reason that I use a LWT, take breaks and make sure I look after myself!

[fishtank]

woopesh wrote:
Defined benefit pensions are from the days when people expected to retire mid 60's....

Yes they are.
Those "days" were when I signed up to it, and when royal mail countersigned it, now I've kept up my side of the deal, stayed loyal to the company and paid my contributions every week and they've moved the goalposts twice already meaning I'm already not getting what I signed up to in the first place. I'm afraid 3rd time is my line in the sand.

If you could guarantee that I'll live to a ripe old age and be a sprightly 90 year old I might feel a bit better about it but my knees are already dodgy, so is my left ankle and favouring one side over the other will probably mean I'll end up with a plastic hip so although some people ( mostly affluent office based professionals ) might be enjoying the golf course into their 80s I doubt that's what awaits the majority of manual workers and certainly not posties who've spent much time on 4hr+ deliveries.

[Dorset Plodder]

If you could guarantee that I'll live to a ripe old age and be a sprightly 90 year old I might feel a bit better about it but my knees are already dodgy, so is my left ankle and favouring one side over the other will probably mean I'll end up with a plastic hip so although some people ( mostly affluent office based professionals ) might be enjoying the golf course into their 80s I doubt that's what awaits the majority of manual workers and certainly not posties who've spent much time on 4hr+ deliveries.

I know how you feel Fish, like they say if you wake up in the morning and nothing hurts....you're probably dead.

[wookie]

And they wait for Xmas to be over with. Surely this sort of talk should have been in Oct/Nov, nothing has suddenly changed for it to come up now.

[Martin Walsh]

Why did they wait till after Christmas ? Very simple Royal Mail did not want to announce it prior to Christmas because of the publicity but let's be clear no one in the union is saying we will ballot this month or next month. Remember that until Royal Mail announce the decision following the three months consultation than we do not need to ballot. Additionally the DB scheme will not be closed for another 14 months which includes another Christmas if that is the course of action.

The Union will be making an announcement very soon over the strategy which is based on a united shceme for all members pre 2008 and post 2008 including the end of the DC scheme. It delivers a better pension for all than what Royal Mail are offering under their proposal.

Additionally Pensions is linked to the other talks including pay , shorter working week , further extension on the legal guarantees and changes to the network which will mean potentially later starts and clocking in and out and after every task using all the technology available including Trimble , PDA GPS, and data capture . Plus Royal Mail want more flexibility including seasonal variations of attendances and whole range of issues.

So the stakes are high and Royal Mail would love to have a workforce which did not believe it was right stand up,and strike if necessary. In 1994 postmen and women were on just 10 thousand per year with the majority working 6 days per week. OPGS are now on £21,439 with no one working 6 days other than those who choose to under a wally system or on overtime. Most of those gains have come from disputes and yes in return we have seen change and the job is harder but let's be real
here no union has a veto to change it can only ensure that change is limited and the staff get the benefits from it.

Over many years postmen and women have taken strike action to protect and to get new benefits for not just themselves but new postmen and women and that is why when it comes postmen and women will once again vote to fight. You get nothing in Royal Mail unless you stand up and be counted.

[nickbsmooth]

So for the thousands of Postie's and RM staff who joined after 2008, if strike action happens what are they losing pay for as in what benefits are they trying to save?
There's been no talk of any other benefits being tampered with ie sick/holiday pay.
These benefits are part of a contract which are the terms agreed be employer and employee,so can't be changed without notification and agreement.