Returning to office to sign out at end of shift

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

You weren't advising people that they did not, when requested have to return to the office to sign out using an agreement, large parts of which have been superceded.
So no I wasn't referring to you.

I can't really make this any clearer to members, seek advice from your rep, probably even your area rep before starting a fight with management about anything, don't take anything you read on here as100% accurate whether it's well meaning or not, this job is what puts food on your table and these are dangerous times.

I don't think anyone actually advised that they did not have to return when request, advice was given from part of an agreement which is still valid and part which has not been superceded that shows what has been agreed between the cwu and rm, if a manager is not adhering to such agreements then rep etc should get involved but if the rep doesn't know the agreement and the manager doesn't know the agreements then this site is a good site to find out factual information

worse I believe is people giving advice on misconceptions that other parts of agreements have been superceded when in fact they have not

[holly123]

Park and loop is a two man effort , both start at work and should finish at work , you would have to if you worked anywhere else . I hate it when i end up with a partner who thinks old school -drivers work -footmans work . spls are both are responsibility as is the van maintenance, if you go over your time claim it back by going in late morning after

[Nondescript]

Most drivers our side are considerate to the passengers who can't drive and would have to walk for ages or get numerous buses to get home from the office, and so let them finish on the street ( if closer to their home than the office is ).

The way it should be. Who wants to walk home soaked to the skin after being out four or five hours pounding the pavement?

I certainly appreciate my driver who, while he maybe works an extra 10 minutes putting parcels and pda back etc, saves me almost an hour by letting me finish in street.

10 minutes? Do you finish at your office? And what about the drivers who then have to spend an hour getting home from the depot in the pouring rain after finishing later? Whoever thought CDVs were a good idea needs a good talking to, worst idea ever not to mention that there is no recompense for the additional workloads involved.

Every driver in my side has their car in the car park to get home so would have to go back anyway.

And it does take 10 mins to put the stuff away in our office.

Like I say the drivers in my office are considerate and don't mind putting the stuff back themselves to save their passenger a long trek home.

Maybe you aint as considerate but each to their own.

Is it always up to the driver to be considerate? Perhaps you should consider that the driver has additional responsibilities and perhaps it should be you giving him/her a break by coming back to the office to help out. I've worked as both a driver and a passenger and the passenger IMO always gets the easier ride, pun intended. As for having their cars in the car park to get home, don't those things cost money to run? It's not like they are getting a free ride home, is it?

[motherhubbard]

worse I believe is people giving advice on misconceptions that other parts of agreements have been superceded when in fact they have not

Since the BT2010 agreement most offices will have undergone a delivery methods revision.
Most of these were built around everyone returning to the office.
Nobody on here has any idea what was agreed in somebody else's office and it is that agreement that will now hold the field and not the words of BT2010.
I think Fishtank is right when he talks about it being superceded.

Your advice appears to be that anyone whose break is split 20/20 doesn't have to return to the office to sign out and that advice is clealy wrong and as Fishtank says - dangerous.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

worse I believe is people giving advice on misconceptions that other parts of agreements have been superceded when in fact they have not

Since the BT2010 agreement most offices will have undergone a delivery methods revision.
Most of these were built around everyone returning to the office.
Nobody on here has any idea what was agreed in somebody else's office and it is that agreement that will now hold the field and not the words of BT2010.
I think Fishtank is right when he talks about it being superceded.

Your advice appears to be that anyone whose break is split 20/20 doesn't have to return to the office to sign out and that advice is clealy wrong and as Fishtank says - dangerous.

I think.... yeah going to rep and saying some random person online thinks this so could you please act on it, that is far more dangerous, as I said I have only provided the factual information from the way forward agreement which has not been superceded and in fact was confirmed as such by another poster from an article in the courier from just last year, how that information is used is the responsibility of the person using the information but it is better to know what is agreed and have it in writing rather than just have a feeling about it.

[Chewster]

If the driver is happy to let the passenger out away from the office so they can go home quicker, what's the problem? I often do when I'm the driver. It's no big trouble to sort the stuff out yourself upon return to the office. If my passenger needs home particularly early for an appointment or something then I'll often drop them off early and just finish the delivery myself.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

If the driver is happy to let the passenger out away from the office so they can go home quicker, what's the problem? I often do when I'm the driver. It's no big trouble to sort the stuff out yourself upon return to the office. If my passenger needs home particularly early for an appointment or something then I'll often drop them off early and just finish the delivery myself.

slight problem is when people are finishing early, if passenger went home then driver returned to office before due to finish dom could quite rightly expect both passenger and driver to do some extra work before their finish time

[Dorset Plodder]

We really should get our heads around the fact that there are a 1000 Delivery Offices and Thousands of Posties on Different types of Deliveries. For each Delivery Office there's probably a different procedure..... allowing for those Bloody "Local Agreements"!

A lot of comments appear sensible i.e Finishing near your home and asking the Driver to return your bags etc. although it's also been highlighted that maybe the "Driver" is having to do more than he should...also valid.

I always thought you booked out for H&S reasons...How else does the Manager know if anyone's still out there? But Our Runners are the worst they don't want people to see when they finish! And the DOM doesn't pick them up on it.

In my particular DO every Postie could theoretically book out, as we all return to the DO. Personally it wouldn't bother me if we had to Swipe in & out (which I understand is on the cards) as I have nothing to hide. I don't work for FREE and I'm not a Runner that sneaks off early! Combine that with the tracking Telemetry in the vans and the 2D bar codes tracking parcels to walks and I think the days of the "Old Mafia" (sitting on some nice cushy, undersized duty, always finishing early) are numbered!

[Chewster]

If the driver is happy to let the passenger out away from the office so they can go home quicker, what's the problem? I often do when I'm the driver. It's no big trouble to sort the stuff out yourself upon return to the office. If my passenger needs home particularly early for an appointment or something then I'll often drop them off early and just finish the delivery myself.

slight problem is when people are finishing early, if passenger went home then driver returned to office before due to finish dom could quite rightly expect both passenger and driver to do some extra work before their finish time

Yeah that's a very valid point, but most in our office (myself and my usual partner on that duty included) are part timers (4 hours a day) so we're ALWAYS over our time technically. If I drop them off early, I note the time they went and fill in their docket for them and sign out for them too. So we're both getting paid for what we do.

But yes, if it's a pair of full timers I can see why doms would want to put a stop to that. Also for health and safety obligations, I've had jobs in the past where I've been crucified for not signing out or even just signing out late, purely because the managers have ended up with big brother breathing down their necks.

[Donnygav93]

In my section we have been threatened with the 3c's if we don't comply

[postmanplod69]

My partner and i have an agreement , i do 20 mins or so of his last loop,and he takes the van specials etc back to the depot,he when its busy cuts off while i prefer to stay out and continue my delivery, if management insist on us both coming back to the office to sign out it will cause problems for them because if i have to come back to sign out, who is going to take me back to finish my delivery? Not my driver and wont be my lino either because my managers a non driver

[midvillain]

So basically it's different in every office, but it would appear that it's not Royal Mail policy that everyone should return to the office simply to sign out, and there's no national agreement/joint statement about it, and no legal requirement, so it would be difficult for the union to force management to enforce it, unless they can do so on H&S grounds. If management are prepared to let it slide, then that's their problem, unless they suddenly start trying to use it as a way to measure hours, which then becomes our problem

[Whysoslowyehcfc]

One point that's overlooked is this, how many managers are in the office when you return to your office...
Because our managers have long gone home

[steve1873]

There is no requirement to return to office to sign out, health and saftey or otherwise, in fact it's actually specifically mentioned in the Way Forward Agreement that when part of a break is taken at the end of the shift there is no requirement to return to the office for the sole purpose of signing out at the end of shift

With the shared van revisions, EVERYONE is required to return to their offices and sign out. Even if you are taking part of break at end of shift, you would still return, say 20 minutes early, and sign out at that time, thus starting your "break", in effect going home 20 minutes early, with no requirement to come back 20 minutes later to sign-out again to signify end of shift.

The only dispensation should be if someone has overnight retention of vehicle, or on a one off basis due to an appointment or some such. It certainly should't be a regular thing, with 1 person dropping the oppo off at home and then returning to office solo.

[steve1873]

There is no requirement to return to office to sign out, health and saftey or otherwise, in fact it's actually specifically mentioned in the Way Forward Agreement that when part of a break is taken at the end of the shift there is no requirement to return to the office for the sole purpose of signing out at the end of shift

That's actually great news to me. Can you direct me to the specific part of the agreement? In particular, I can't see how people can be forced to come back to the office in a situation where it will take them into their own time.

How will it take them in to their own time? Travelling time back to the office is accounted for and your shift ends back at the office. If it is too busy to complete delivery and return to office, then either cut-off or claim extended delivery OT.

Pouching off and finishing on the street is finished with the methods revision (as far as I am aware, although stand to be corrected).