halfull wrote:banking of hours is unagreed however you dress it up, end of.
So is going home early.....
but if a manager allows it they cannot ask for that time back at a later date.
its simple, its up to management to fill our hours on a daily basis, not you made 30 minutes today you can work 30 minutes over in 3 days.
Like i said there are many ways to dress it up, swings & roundabouts,flexibility, goodwill etc.... but its all banking hours & is not agreed by our union. We are willing to work our hours everyday,its not our fault on a Tuesday the work is not there.
I think the point fishtank is making is that if managers let you go home when you're finished (and they have every right to make you stay until time every single day)' then working over once another day if needed isn't the end of the world. It's a bit of give and take, we do it in our office and it benefits me because I go over once per week max and go home early most other days. Not massively early, 20-45 minutes most days but I'd rather do that than sit there until bang on time.
What I don't want and won't do is a fully flexible 39hrs.
The problem is that as I have experienced, if you work to your time and tell them you won,t complete, they start throwing the 30 minute flexibility at you as an individual but at the same time, pay those who are prepared to extend, their overtime. Surely this is not the way flexibility works, it should be for the whole unit because of some emergency situation and not on an individual basis because you are not prepared to extend.
the 30 minute flexibility rule is not a tell its an ask! You can be asked to work over 30 minutes (in unforeseen circumstances, ie your office mail arrives 30 minutes late) but its always up to you to say yes or no. You cannot ever be forced top work over your time if you do not want to.
Also an important piece of information is that if anyone does work over 30 minutes under the flex rule you should get those 30 minutes back the same week, so lets say you work over 30 minutes on a Thursday if asked, you could always say can i finish 30 minutes early on Saturday!
halfull wrote:banking of hours is unagreed however you dress it up, end of.
So is going home early.....
but if a manager allows it they cannot ask for that time back at a later date.
its simple, its up to management to fill our hours on a daily basis, not you made 30 minutes today you can work 30 minutes over in 3 days.
Like i said there are many ways to dress it up, swings & roundabouts,flexibility, goodwill etc.... but its all banking hours & is not agreed by our union. We are willing to work our hours everyday,its not our fault on a Tuesday the work is not there.
I think the point fishtank is making is that if managers let you go home when you're finished (and they have every right to make you stay until time every single day)' then working over once another day if needed isn't the end of the world. It's a bit of give and take, we do it in our office and it benefits me because I go over once per week max and go home early most other days. Not massively early, 20-45 minutes most days but I'd rather do that than sit there until bang on time.
What I don't want and won't do is a fully flexible 39hrs.
The problem is that as I have experienced, if you work to your time and tell them you won,t complete, they start throwing the 30 minute flexibility at you as an individual but at the same time, pay those who are prepared to extend, their overtime. Surely this is not the way flexibility works, it should be for the whole unit because of some emergency situation and not on an individual basis because you are not prepared to extend.
the 30 minute flexibility rule is not a tell its an ask! You can be asked to work over 30 minutes (in unforeseen circumstances, ie your office mail arrives 30 minutes late) but its always up to you to say yes or no. You cannot ever be forced top work over your time if you do not want to.
Also an important piece of information is that if anyone does work over 30 minutes under the flex rule you should get those 30 minutes back the same week, so lets say you work over 30 minutes on a Thursday if asked, you could always say can i finish 30 minutes early on Saturday!
Believe me mate, as far as they are concerned it is not an ask, and if you read the exact transcript of the agreement it states that individual circumstances should be taken into account. If that is the case then a manager has a decision to make, whereas if it was a simple ask and response of negative or positive then individual circumstances would have no part to play in it. The people spouting that it is just an ask are the CWU Heirarchy. The same people who have signed up for yet another ambiguous agreement.
halfull wrote:banking of hours is unagreed however you dress it up, end of.
So is going home early.....
but if a manager allows it they cannot ask for that time back at a later date.
its simple, its up to management to fill our hours on a daily basis, not you made 30 minutes today you can work 30 minutes over in 3 days.
Like i said there are many ways to dress it up, swings & roundabouts,flexibility, goodwill etc.... but its all banking hours & is not agreed by our union. We are willing to work our hours everyday,its not our fault on a Tuesday the work is not there.
I think the point fishtank is making is that if managers let you go home when you're finished (and they have every right to make you stay until time every single day)' then working over once another day if needed isn't the end of the world. It's a bit of give and take, we do it in our office and it benefits me because I go over once per week max and go home early most other days. Not massively early, 20-45 minutes most days but I'd rather do that than sit there until bang on time.
What I don't want and won't do is a fully flexible 39hrs.
The problem is that as I have experienced, if you work to your time and tell them you won,t complete, they start throwing the 30 minute flexibility at you as an individual but at the same time, pay those who are prepared to extend, their overtime. Surely this is not the way flexibility works, it should be for the whole unit because of some emergency situation and not on an individual basis because you are not prepared to extend.
the 30 minute flexibility rule is not a tell its an ask! You can be asked to work over 30 minutes (in unforeseen circumstances, ie your office mail arrives 30 minutes late) but its always up to you to say yes or no. You cannot ever be forced top work over your time if you do not want to.
Also an important piece of information is that if anyone does work over 30 minutes under the flex rule you should get those 30 minutes back the same week, so lets say you work over 30 minutes on a Thursday if asked, you could always say can i finish 30 minutes early on Saturday!
Believe me mate, as far as they are concerned it is not an ask, and if you read the exact transcript of the agreement it states that individual circumstances should be taken into account. If that is the case then a manager has a decision to make, whereas if it was a simple ask and response of negative or positive then individual circumstances would have no part to play in it. The people spouting that it is just an ask are the CWU Heirarchy. The same people who have signed up for yet another ambiguous agreement.
yes as you say individual circumstances should be taken into account, so if a manager tells you, you must work 30 minutes over & you say i cannot i have got to pick my child up from school/nursery or i have a dental appointment or a doctors appointment or my boiler is being serviced etc they can still make you?? no! maybe you are confused or have misunderstood what individual circumstances should be taken into account means?
Nobody can force you to work over your finish time, some people cannot work over due to personnel commitments, aslong as they work their contracted hours for that day they are not doing anything wrong. Overtime is not compulsory.
As far as they are concerned you would not be doing overtime, you are being flexible and will be given the time back. You can give them all of those reasons for not being flexible and it does not make a hoot of difference. They are only interested in getting the work completed without having to get their own hands dirty. Once again I repeat if this was a case of them asking, if there was no grey areas there would be no need for this to be written into any agreement, because you would just answer NO, the same as what you can if they ASK you to work your day off.
Hi, did we get £400 for the flexi 30 mins time? If my manager asks me to stay back or i can see its going to fail I will offer then bank the time and take it back when I want to, but I think it is only fair to him/her as mutch notice as I can,it works for me.
oldrope wrote:Hi, did we get £400 for the flexi 30 mins time? If my manager asks me to stay back or i can see its going to fail I will offer then bank the time and take it back when I want to, but I think it is only fair to him/her as mutch notice as I can,it works for me.
To be fair 30 mins extra in an MC is a far different prospect to 30 mins on top of already too long 4hr30min delivery in the pissing rain/sleet/snow....
Lincox wrote:As far as they are concerned you would not be doing overtime, you are being flexible and will be given the time back. You can give them all of those reasons for not being flexible and it does not make a hoot of difference. They are only interested in getting the work completed without having to get their own hands dirty. Once again I repeat if this was a case of them asking, if there was no grey areas there would be no need for this to be written into any agreement, because you would just answer NO, the same as what you can if they ASK you to work your day off.
30 minute flex rule is an ASK in an unforeseen circumstance!
Lincox wrote:As far as they are concerned you would not be doing overtime, you are being flexible and will be given the time back. You can give them all of those reasons for not being flexible and it does not make a hoot of difference. They are only interested in getting the work completed without having to get their own hands dirty. Once again I repeat if this was a case of them asking, if there was no grey areas there would be no need for this to be written into any agreement, because you would just answer NO, the same as what you can if they ASK you to work your day off.
30 minute flex rule is an ASK in an unforeseen circumstance!
Lincox wrote:As far as they are concerned you would not be doing overtime, you are being flexible and will be given the time back. You can give them all of those reasons for not being flexible and it does not make a hoot of difference. They are only interested in getting the work completed without having to get their own hands dirty. Once again I repeat if this was a case of them asking, if there was no grey areas there would be no need for this to be written into any agreement, because you would just answer NO, the same as what you can if they ASK you to work your day off.
30 minute flex rule is an ASK in an unforeseen circumstance!
Cloud cuckoo land
he's right - its voluntary in my office.
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Lincox wrote:As far as they are concerned you would not be doing overtime, you are being flexible and will be given the time back. You can give them all of those reasons for not being flexible and it does not make a hoot of difference. They are only interested in getting the work completed without having to get their own hands dirty. Once again I repeat if this was a case of them asking, if there was no grey areas there would be no need for this to be written into any agreement, because you would just answer NO, the same as what you can if they ASK you to work your day off.
30 minute flex rule is an ASK in an unforeseen circumstance!
Cloud cuckoo land
maybe they force you to work over with the 30 minute flex rule but nobody in my d.o or in any d.o's in my area get forced to work over with the 30 minute flex rule, never ever seen it once! They dont even try lol!!
Royal Mail are continuing to push the boundaries of the 30 min flex rule and I would expect that to increase.
It is a very weak part of the agreement, poorly worded, open to abuse and has already been undermined at national level by removing the need to repay it the same week .
I expect more to come.
fishtank wrote:Royal Mail are continuing to push the boundaries of the 30 min flex rule and I would expect that to increase.
It is a very weak part of the agreement, poorly worded, open to abuse and has already been undermined at national level by removing the need to repay it the same week .
I expect more to come.
does not change the fact you cannot be forced to work over your time if you cannot.
In my case 3 years ago I refused to flex due to picking up grandson from school. The same days my colleagues were paid overtime as they were prepared to complete. My manager at the time became very irate on the phone and told me he was coming over to our sub depot to see me. On arrival he asked me again if I would flex and I refused. He gave me 5 minutes to change my mind and if I refused I would be suspended and taken down the conduct code. I didn,t give him the chance. I walked out and contacted my area rep. I received a letter over the week end telling me that my pay had been deducted and I was given a date for a meeting to discuss my reasons for leaving the office and to discuss my conduct. It so happened that I already had presented a grievance against this manager, and because of this he was unable to suspend me and my pay was reinstated by a more senior manager. The meeting to discuss conduct coding was also recinded. My grievance took 18 months to conclude.
This is why halfful, unless you have gone through this sort of harassment because managers read into this agreement what they want, you have no idea what you are talking about.
