D2D payment fair??

[Member 34]

do PTers not get standard rate up to 40 hours?

No, the overtime rate up to 40 or 39 hours is about 75p per hour more than the contracted hours' rate.

[Cut Off King]

I can't believe I am reading this thread 18 months after the introduction of BT2010.

I believe the reason that your still reading about it now is because 99% of delivery staff see it as fundamentaly UNFAIR system of distabuting the cash from ESA /D2D.

They DO NOT see it as a "delivery suppliment " they see it a PAY CUT from what they were getting for delivering D2D's @ 1.67p per item
They also see it as fundamentaly UNFAIR that a person who does NO D2D's, is paid the same as someone preping & delivering 6 x 800 items

£20 may be officially a delivery suppliment to CWU officials, But to OPG's in D.O.'s its seen as a stab in the back !

[Martin Walsh]

Cut of king , yes some people lost money epsecially if they were doing 3 door to doors every week and never had sick leave and only had 5 weeks leave plus and they did door to door at christmas and they had £12 early shift allowance.

However not everyone had £12 early shift , plenty had no shift allowance including all those who joined after 2007 and some had the £6 early shift allowance.

Of course going forward had the CWU not trapped the early shift allowance into basic pay then very few would now be getting it as not many offices following an intregrated walk sequencing revison will be working prior to 5 or 5 :30 so that money would have in the end gone via MTSF.

Now in terms of door to door unit payment it was never going to continue , and the CWU then had to decide did it try and get the payment into permanent pay or did it continue to just pay which would be paid 52 weeks per year regardless whether an indivdual is on leave or sick and is protected from any automation in the door to door market.

Once the CWU decided to put it into basic pay as a supplement then it had to be paid pro rata as otherwise part timer workers would be on a higher hourly rate then full timers.

[dvbuk55]

Once the CWU decided to put it into basic pay as a supplement then it had to be paid pro rata as otherwise part timer workers would be on a higher hourly rate then full timers.

Well doesn't that happen now? People on a 39 hour week after revision will be paid a higher hourly rate than those of us still on 40 hours and the same applies to part timers in those offices..............or didn't anyone think of that at the time?

[PhilthyPhil]

Well doesn't that happen now? People on a 39 hour week after revision will be paid a higher hourly rate than those of us still on 40 hours and the same applies to part timers in those offices..............or didn't anyone think of that at the time?

While that is true, it is only a temporary situaton though. Eventually all FT will be on a 39 hr week.

[dvbuk55]

Well doesn't that happen now? People on a 39 hour week after revision will be paid a higher hourly rate than those of us still on 40 hours and the same applies to part timers in those offices..............or didn't anyone think of that at the time?

While that is true, it is only a temporary situaton though. Eventually all FT will be on a 39 hr week.

How temporary? If it has taken 18 months for 20% of revisions, not all of which have 39 hr weeks, and there is a little over 15 months until the end of the agreement, supposedly, but may be extended until 2015. Now eventually I'm going to be 70 but that is in the future and certain, this agreement has nothing to say when all revisions will be complete and therefore when everyone will be on 39 hours. Yet just one more leeeetle foible in this agreement and especially with the bumper pay rise due in 5 months, when the discrepancy gets bigger.

What was wrong with a simple bung it in the basic pay, you get paid for the hours you work and everyone gets a 39 hour week immediately - you know the old adage PP.............KISS. After all it wasn't costing RM anything at all BECAUSE it was our money!!!!!

[fishtank]

Once the CWU decided to put it into basic pay as a supplement then it had to be paid pro rata as otherwise part timer workers would be on a higher hourly rate then full timers.

It's not in basic pay in any way dingo despite you continually saying that it is...it's a supplement to basic pay....just like any other allowance apart from the link to future pay rises.
If it was in basic pay it would be fully pensionable and flow through to overtime rates.
Don't you get bored of this continual "dressing up"?
What's wrong with the simple truth these days?
Why does everything have to be polished and have the downside hidden?

[dvbuk55]

Once the CWU decided to put it into basic pay as a supplement then it had to be paid pro rata as otherwise part timer workers would be on a higher hourly rate then full timers.

It's not in basic pay in any way dingo despite you continually saying that it is...it's a supplement to basic pay....just like any other allowance apart from the link to future pay rises.
If it was in basic pay it would be fully pensionable and flow through to overtime rates.
Don't you get bored of this continual "dressing up"?
What's wrong with the simple truth these days?
Why does everything have to be polished and have the downside hidden?

Well I believe you may polish a turd but it is still a turd

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank dont you get tired of misleading the words in the agreement is permanent addtion to basic pay. Being pensionable does not make any difference under the care scheme as it is done on year pots not on final salary. Whether the payment is pensionable and some of it is as anyone who was on either early shift 1 or 2 still has that pensionable or whether it is not the fact is the supplement is considered as a permanent addition to basic pay and goes up in line with basic pay,

You accuse me of speaking up the agreement , but to your a keyboard warrior who moans and shouts but does nothing to change anything. But hey whatever your a star on here.

[not me]

Fishtank dont you get tired of misleading the words in the agreement is permanent addtion to basic pay. Being pensionable does not make any difference under the care scheme as it is done on year pots not on final salary. Whether the payment is pensionable and some of it is as anyone who was on either early shift 1 or 2 still has that pensionable or whether it is not the fact is the supplement is considered as a permanent addition to basic pay and goes up in line with basic pay,

You accuse me of speaking up the agreement , but to your a keyboard warrior who moans and shouts but does nothing to change anything. But hey whatever your a star on here.

I would say permanent until the next agreement is more accurate

[dvbuk55]

Well why call it a supplement ffs - just add it to the basic pay and do away with the controversy.

New starters who get the supplement didn't actually contribute to the pot in the first place.

[fishtank]

Personaly dingo...i'm just sick of every single thing that is fed down from above from both management and the union requiring a sieve to remove the bull,the spin,the chaff and the ridiculous propaganda.
I'm a big boy.i can actually handle the fact that it's a supplement to basic pay without falling to pieces and accusing the union of selling out,
I know it was always unlikely that it would go straight into basic pay...i think most members can understand that.
I don't,however want to be spun a line that it's the best thing since sliced bread because it plainly isn't.
I'll ignore the personal stuff.

[Cut Off King]

Cut of king , yes some people lost money epsecially if they were doing 3 door to doors every week and never had sick leave and only had 5 weeks leave plus and they did door to door at christmas and they had £12 early shift allowance.

However not everyone had £12 early shift , plenty had no shift allowance including all those who joined after 2007 and some had the £6 early shift allowance.

Of course going forward had the CWU not trapped the early shift allowance into basic pay then very few would now be getting it as not many offices following an intregrated walk sequencing revison will be working prior to 5 or 5 :30 so that money would have in the end gone via MTSF.

Now in terms of door to door unit payment it was never going to continue , and the CWU then had to decide did it try and get the payment into permanent pay or did it continue to just pay which would be paid 52 weeks per year regardless whether an indivdual is on leave or sick and is protected from any automation in the door to door market.

Once the CWU decided to put it into basic pay as a supplement then it had to be paid pro rata as otherwise part timer workers would be on a higher hourly rate then full timers.

Your arguement about capturing the money may well be perfectly true and factually correct ,

BUT at the OPG level in delivery - Its still viewed as a kick in the teeth by the CWU.
Very few OPG's come on here on a regular basis and engage in a debate, be informed & educated about what is going on behind the scenes

99% of delivery OPG's simply see it as they find it ,

1-- D2D workload has increased without the promised extra prep & delivery time being added- i.e. reduced call rate to compensate. Most come in early to prep their d2d's (for free) just so that they can get out on time.

2-- Reduction in take home pay.

No amount of technical exlanation by you & others, to users of this site, who pass your words on to the others ( who don't come on the internet to this side ) that work in delivery, is going to convince them otherwise. It is seen as a bad deal for delivery OPG's.

Right or wrong - thats how it comes across.

[Martin Walsh]

Custard I dont know how long you have done in Royal Mail but up to the way forward we had other unconsolidated permanent addiitions to basic pay for years and then went into pensionable pay under the way forward.

The only way the delivery supplement will not become permanaent is if the Royal Mail decided to break that deal and if the CWU membership did not vote for stirke action to stop it. Both of those I think are unlikely.

[dvbuk55]

Custard I dont know how long you have done in Royal Mail but up to the way forward we had other unconsolidated permanent addiitions to basic pay for years and then went into pensionable pay under the way forward.

The only way the delivery supplement will not become permanaent is if the Royal Mail decided to break that deal and if the CWU membership did not vote for stirke action to stop it. Both of those I think are unlikely.

One more unlikely than the other