Why the lack of debate on the Pension Forum

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I asked this question in my office over the last 2 days - Most of them say - "Well the Union split the issue from the IA and promised to treat it as a separate issue. Since then nothing". Some even think that once the Union/RM had separated the issue then the Union accepted the changes and that's when the issued died.

A lot believe that the Union wasted a chance and can't now be bothered to show much interest in something the believe they have no chance of influencing.

Whether these perceptions are right or wrong, one thing is for certain the Union need to engage the members more if they want members to realise the seriousness of the situation. unfortunately the brief period of time between the LTB announcing a Pension Forum and actually holding it, did not give branches that cover large geographical areas a lot of time to get that interest growing.

[Martin Walsh]

Well if you look at the amendments to the policy you will see that there are two amendments containing what you asked for and yours truly is moving one of them.

Yes I do think we need a pensions policy forum for that cause there can be no hiding place for Branch's or cwu HQs. I am tired of hearing that there are 30 000 employeees not in the pension scheme and 20 000 now in the unagreed inferior scheme . The cwu as a whole has to now understand there is going to be a further attack on our pension scheme and we must oppose it whatever it takes .

[keithposty]

i totally agree

we are talking of peoples lives in retirment and this issue should not be swept under the carpet by not only royal mail/goverment, but the CWU AS WELL

[Phantom]

I asked this question in my office over the last 2 days - Most of them say - "Well the Union split the issue from the IA and promised to treat it as a separate issue. Since then nothing". Some even think that once the Union/RM had separated the issue then the Union accepted the changes and that's when the issued died.

A lot believe that the Union wasted a chance and can't now be bothered to show much interest in something the believe they have no chance of influencing.

Whether these perceptions are right or wrong, one thing is for certain the Union need to engage the members more if they want members to realise the seriousness of the situation. unfortunately the brief period of time between the LTB announcing a Pension Forum and actually holding it, did not give branches that cover large geographical areas a lot of time to get that interest growing.

Exactly - Pensions are DEAD!!! move on and let see what the CWU will give away next!

[hans solo]

so if we are all concerned about pensions (public) why are we not being balloted for strike action with fellow public service workers in nov
what are we scared of . cwu in hand with rm and gvmt i would suggest
prove me wrong
terms and conditions fcuk we now want the terms of 2010 because the crap we are forced (that means BULLYING WEST OF SCOT ) is so bad.
its the pension assets there after and then payg pensions for rest of us
no doubt hq pensions will be looked after as will rm mgmt and gvmt
wheres the investigation into there pensions
WE SHOULD BE OUT ON STRIKE WITH ALL PUBLIC WORKERS due to pension rip offs

[arnold cheshire]

i couldnt give a monkeys

[Martin Walsh]

Hans the reason we are not being balloted is ours is not a public sector scheme

1. The change to CPI from RPI which effects a lot of the pUblic sector does not effect anyone in Royal Mail who was employed after 87 and only effects those who were employed pre 87 when they reitre. The Pops scheme has RPI written into it as does the Care Scheme.

2. There is no increase in contributions in our pension scheme.

3. There is no attack on our ability to take our pension at the age of 60 and we can even take the one pension pot at 60 and another at 65.

4. We still have our final salary protected prior to 2008 whereas the public sectors unions thought they had a deal under Alan Johnson which protected their final salary whilst ending the ability for new recruits to enter their scheme only for the Con Dems to now want to change that.

We may end up with a ballot on our own scheme but let's be clear the attack on the public sector unions is not the same as we are facing . In fact the problem with the unions involved on the 30th November is that they have all different finishing lines and the Government know that.

In terms of your point Phantom the reality is our pension scheme even under care is a very good scheme one which we must defend. Compare our scheme to any new recruit in Royal Mail or in the private sector and you will see how superior our pension scheme is.

[Dorset Plodder]

Over the last couple of years I've been lied to by RM over office transfers and changes to contracts. As a result I've lost 50% of my income! Therefore I'm now losing money TODAY! I hope to be free of RMs Bullying and Harassment in the next 12 months or so. So I find it very hard to get excited about how they are going to rip me off many years down the line.

I find it quite amusing to hear my colleagues bleating about their pensions, when in reality they've got a Full time job that isn't that hard and they are basically "Fire Proof" if they work "Properly". The amount of shite that some posties are dealing with on a day to day basis completely overshadows worries about what's going to happen years down the line! Plan your exit plan NOW and don't rely on these jokers to look after you!

[Judgee]

"I find it quite amusing to hear my colleagues bleating about their pensions, when in reality they've got a Full time job that isn't that hard and they are basically "Fire Proof" if they work "Properly".

Any jobs going in your office? I work damn hard in mine but I do like the sound of yours!

[Dorset Plodder]

No Prob J...we are looking for more staff...trouble is they only want 22.5hr 12 week guys! And that's all they've been recruiting for about the last 3 years! The point I was trying to make about our remaining FTers, of which there's probably a third, is IF they worked "Properly" (especially starting and finishing on time) they'd have no problems. Instead of that they're too spineless to cut off and just keep wingeing about how hard their life is. As we know RM cannot make you work over your contracted hours...so don't!

[rockytony67]

Hans the reason we are not being balloted is ours is not a public sector scheme

1. The change to CPI from RPI which effects a lot of the pUblic sector does not effect anyone in Royal Mail who was employed after 87 and only effects those who were employed pre 87 when they reitre. The Pops scheme has RPI written into it as does the Care Scheme.

In terms of your point Phantom the reality is our pension scheme even under care is a very good scheme one which we must defend. Compare our scheme to any new recruit in Royal Mail or in the private sector and you will see how superior our pension scheme is.

Well change from CPI to RPI affects me and I'm sure many members so what is the union going to do about it as for the CARE scheme when you were asking other branch's to take action on the closer of the final salary scheme, I bet you didn't think a couple of years later that you would be saying " our pension scheme even under care is a very good scheme one which we must defend" is this what it has come to, a race to the bottom, with us losing our terms and conditions year after year. How can we expect to defend CARE when we didn't even put up a battle to defend the final salary scheme

I could understand if we had a ballot and lost, at least we as members in the union would have had a say in something that affects most of us and something that we have all paid a lot of money into and it would have been a democrat vote, but what has happened is that every time, a new agreement is brought in, the pension issue is placed to one side and we are told you will get your vote in the future, now it seems the future is here but lo and behold so is the abyss so we've got to the stage were the CARE scheme is a good one

What has happened to the members on pensions is not good enough Dingo, the communication from HQ has been shocking and what Rm have got away with is an absolute disgrace, I don't post as much as I used to(theres enough going on with the revisions) and I've never been one to criticise the union, but on this issue they have let us all down badly, as for why theres a lack of debate, ask HQ, I think that since we lost the final salary scheme I've had one standalone letter from them about pensions.

[bandit650]

I think some of the reason to why we on here don't debate pensions problems is because most of us really don't have a scooby about it and to some degree i think that most of us feel a little bit like" what can we do about it",we as staff are not really in control of it,bit like being in free fall,as with park and loop we are all in it we all deliver mail as our day job so we have massive understanding of what and how,so we can debate it as much as we want and say how it is!
Pensions is the bit where we pay it and we know that it is there for our future(well we always hope that it is)my own take on it is i think that the Government keep changing the age of retirement means that we will never get to draw our pension because we will die before we collect,in some respects it means that they are having the money for nothing we will only collect anything if the death in service benefit remains there for the family to pick up that's if Royal Mail don't go down the tube in the mean time!

[Martin Walsh]

Bandit your spot on most people do not understand pensions and the ins and outs of the pension schemes and attacks.

Rocky I understand your anger over the final salary scheme going without a fight.

However the CPI issue does not effect you in the way you think. All your service prior to 2008 is still based on Final salary , all your service there after is based on RPI as it is written into the Care scheme. For those of us who were employed before 87 when we retire our yearly pension increase there after will be based on CPI. Those who were employed after 1987 and who are in the old pops scheme have it written into their scheme that it increases by RPI.

Now god knows what measurement will be in place in the future or whether a new Government turns back to RPI instead of CPI. however until you have retired and received your pension the issue of CPI does not effect you.

Now your right when I as asking for a ballot to protect the final salary I was not singing the merits of the Care Scheme. However Britain and the world was not in the depression / recession we are.

Care scheme over the last couple of years have fared better than final salary schemes. The simple reason is that pay rises have been low whereas inflation has been high and the CARE scheme tracks RPI.

Now we would all like to get the final salary scheme back but every final salary scheme is under attack and Royal Mail have the biggest deficit of any scheme.

it is therefore important that we improve the care scheme further incuding fretting the supplement pensionable, the ability of the new entrants to enter the scheme and to get a guarantee that Royal Mail and any new owner cannot reduce the scheme further.

[BELIAL]

However Britain and the world was not in the depression / recession we are.

You talked me round, I'll just settle for the 49% pay rise then. You can't have it all can you

[Darren Bent]

As my retirement is in 26 years if I retire at 65. I don't know enough about pension politics to make discussion. I put in 6 years so far. I do agree the government need to pay it back the deflect.

I don't know what will happens in my life in the next 26 years to make plans for future. I think I could get better job and maybe marry someone eventually and then my folks probably won't live in 2038 (But no one knows) plus I won't know if I will win big enough eurolottery jackpot.

I means 30 years will probably pay for about 75% of pension plus state pension and less taxable income will means I probably take home about something almost similar to our pay without allowance. If Britain is too expensive to live, I could move aboard to get cheaper cost of living and less money wasted on heating as I don't have roots.