Public sector pay freeze.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

dvbuk55

professional?


Please define?

Officers of the union employed by the union paid by the union or reps PEC/ divisional/regional/area employed by and paid by RML?

It is easier to say professional reps - rather than the official version which is I believe - Full Time Release Representatives.

[BELIAL]

Every party stated last night they would bring in a pay freeze if they were to win the general election.

The |CWU has managed to beat that by getting a 3 year deal which means not only does basic pay go up but the supplement goes up each year.

The third year wording around the review was worded in that way not because Royal Mail wanted that but if inflation or the pension issue was resolved.

Some of you believe that this was never about pay , well sorry it was always about the priniciple that Royal Mail should pay for change rather than just introduce change without any beneftits for the workforce.

The timing of this post was a bit unfortunate Dingo ,coming as it did on the same day the latest inflation figures were released. Seen against the background of 4.4% retail price inflation ,a 2% pay rise begins to look a bit disappointing. After hovering around 3.6% since xmas the trend is now well and truly upwards and that was always going to happen after giving £800 billion to the fat cat bankers.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Every party stated last night they would bring in a pay freeze if they were to win the general election.

The |CWU has managed to beat that by getting a 3 year deal which means not only does basic pay go up but the supplement goes up each year.

The third year wording around the review was worded in that way not because Royal Mail wanted that but if inflation or the pension issue was resolved.

Some of you believe that this was never about pay , well sorry it was always about the priniciple that Royal Mail should pay for change rather than just introduce change without any beneftits for the workforce.

The timing of this post was a bit unfortunate Dingo ,coming as it did on the same day the latest inflation figures were released. Seen against the background of 4.4% retail price inflation ,a 2% pay rise begins to look a bit disappointing. After hovering around 3.6% since xmas the trend is now well and truly upwards and that was always going to happen after giving £800 billion to the fat cat bankers.

and those some "bankers" through IMF want to dictate to Greece how they should get out of their financial difficulties. If they do succeed I bet they'll make a tidy profit.

[BELIAL]

Well worth having a read up on WIKI about both the IMF and World Bank ,I think some people might be surprised about the number of democratic governments they have helped to overthrow in favour of military dictatorships. Fingers crossed the Greek military don't get too ambitious this time. Spain? Portugal? Ireland? UK ?

[MinisterofCucumber]

CWU officials responsible to POL members have allowed pay negotiations to drag out so that a decision will not be reached until after the result of the general election. As a result, we are going to get f**k all.

This is despite POL increasing its profits by 50% in the last six months:

ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/publi ... 122009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The cost of petrol was 95p a litre in April 2009,

http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allabou ... il2009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By April 2010, it reached 120.5p

http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allabou ... il2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a 27% rise.

People in my workplace are already talking about a strike.

[dvbuk55]

CWU officials responsible to POL members have allowed pay negotiations to drag out so that a decision will not be reached until after the result of the general election. As a result, we are going to get f**k all.

This is despite POL increasing its profits by 50% in the last six months:

ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/publi ... 122009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The cost of petrol was 95p a litre in April 2009,

http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allabou ... il2009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By April 2010, it reached 120.5p

http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allabou ... il2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a 27% rise.

People in my workplace are already talking about a strike.

Pretty much the point I made about a three year deal minister - there they are crowing about how they have managed a year on year increase, none last year and this year and next year will be well below the level of inflation and there is some uncertainty as to whether a third increase will be on the cards at all. There is of course the spectre of privatisation to contend with as well

[BELIAL]

Let's be honest, this three year deal was only ever of benefit to one side in this equation . The utter madness of committing the membership to what amounts to three years of pay cuts at a time when the economic outlook is so volatile , well, beggars belief .
The trade off we are told is stability and certainty . The certainty is you will be worse off this year ,and the next, and the one after that. As for stability , how does RM intend to stop inflation hitting 20% and how stable will we feel with a 20% pay cut ?

[pcb]

With management looking for a fight last year and we having to take action 3 times (1 unoffical) over the last 4 years it would be hard to get members up for it every year! A 3 year pay deal which gives 6.9% when most people in the country are taking pay cuts and losing jobs through compulsory redundancies I believe is a deal we could not afford to turn down. Now before you all go mental think about it. Royal Mail have learnt to appease before essential periods of increased mails (Xmas/Easter) now if we had turned this down they would have sat back waited for the election to finish and then LOCKED US OUT!.
Labour would have to show markets that they were in control and step back, the public would have been dumfounded. Now if the Tories (nearly sick) got in then it would have been the miners all over again! In a global recession constriction of markets means redundancies a fact of capitalism period!

[BELIAL]

With management looking for a fight last year and we having to take action 3 times (1 unoffical) over the last 4 years it would be hard to get members up for it every year!

Couple of problems with that though isn't there? First , you have to be able to predict the future to say for definite what management response would be to an unknown wage demand , tricky to say the least.
Second and more importantly ,the facts seem to contradict your assertion that the members are not willing to fight for their terms and conditions. The only concrete evidence I know of that could be used to gauge members willingness to take action or not are the results of the most recent strike ballots , both of which were overwhelmingly "up for it". If you have any hard evidence to back up your opinion it would be helpful .

A 3 year pay deal which gives 6.9% whenmost people in the country are taking pay cuts and losing jobs through compulsory redundancies I believe is a deal we could not afford to turn down.

A 2% deal this year is already looking like a big real terms cut in the members standard of living with inflation already standing at 4.4% and heading upwards at an ever increasing rate , any guesses what inflation will be at the end of the year, next year,the year after?
Any chance that you could share with us the source of your information about

most people in the country are taking pay cuts and losing jobs through compulsory redundancies

or is it just plain silly opinion based on nothing. You do realise that in order for your claim to be correct the UK unemployment rate would have to be in excess of 50%

Now before you all go mental think about it. Royal Mail have learnt to appease before essential periods of increased mails (Xmas/Easter) now if we had turned this down they would have sat back waited for the election to finish and then LOCKED US OUT!.

Bit of a non starter the old lock out theory. RM shuts down UK plc indefinitely to drive down workers wages , that would go down well with business and government ,bit of a wrecking ball to crack a nut and oh so very expensive for almost every business in the land

Now if the Tories (nearly sick) got in then it would have been the miners all over again!

That old chestnut. No comparison ,bit tricky to arrange a national stockpile of next weeks letters.

In a global recession constriction of markets means redundancies a fact of capitalism period!

In a thunderstorm you get wet unless you have an umbrella fact!

Still for managing without a single "get real"

[Tman]

What a load of old tosh he spouts, eh Bell?

I mean, it's clear to see that a couple of hundred thousand postal workers were (and are) up for a fight with the government, and weren't happy to accept a not particularly good deal over three years especially in a time of a booming economy and rising employment rates etc.
{Or is that how it is in some parallel world... }

[pcb]

Tman/Belial
Did we not just have a national vote, which, by your reckoning should have brought in a resounding NO vote?
22,000 voted NO 42,000 voted YES and another 60,000 could not be bothered because they are sick and tired of being pull from pillar to post! Now do the MATHS!
reality bites does it not?

[Tman]

PCB, I'm agreeing with you.
I thought you made some good points, while pointing out the errors in the other,rather over-blown, answer you had.

[BELIAL]

What a load of old tosh he spouts, eh Bell?

I mean, it's clear to see that a couple of hundred thousand postal workers were (and are) up for a fight with the government, and weren't happy to accept a not particularly good deal over three years especially in a time of a booming economy and rising employment rates etc.
{Or is that how it is in some parallel world... }

Tman/Belial
Did we not just have a national vote, which, by your reckoning should have brought in a resounding NO vote?
22,000 voted NO 42,000 voted YES and another 60,000 could not be bothered because they are sick and tired of being pull from pillar to post! Now do the MATHS!

PCB, I'm agreeing with you.
I thought you made some good points

Great minds eh. Awesome pairing can't wait to view the fruits of your intellectual union

Did we not just have a national vote,

Yes ,well spotted

which, by your reckoning should have brought in a resounding NO vote?

How do you work that out? You may not have noticed ,but there was no question on the agreement ballot about taking industrial action ,in short it was not a strike ballot .

22,000 voted NO 42,000 voted YES and another 60,000 could not be bothered because they are sick and tired of being pull from pillar to post! Now do the MATHS!
reality bites does it not?

Good counting Still not a strike ballot though was it ?
PS about doing the maths, the union only issued 117,000 ballot papers

[pcb]

Belial: Very pedantic of you: 53,230 did not bother and 42,023 voted Yes. Which adds up to 95,253 of members who did not care or who chose to vote Yes,whch leaves 21,820 who voted no! As for asking for a stike vote, just what were you going to strike about? most would believe it would be like turkeys voting for Xmas! As has been borne out by the ballot reslut for the Agreement!

[spilie]

pcb i bet your a rep