Report from Bournemouth briefing

[trythat]

The first pragraph says it all... (The deficit in the Royal Mail pension scheme remains an issue but in talks with Government it was clear that action would only follow an agreement between RM and the CWU on modernisation of the business.)

So the nice government says it will not give us our money back unless we vote in this dreadful agreement .

Thats exactly what I think will happen in the end!

[Himaggen]

D2D average 2 per week across the country. with average member payments of £12.39. 79,000 currently receive D2D payments, 27,000 do not.

Based on the information they're quoting in order to sell this:

2 average number of DTD accross the country x 1.67 the lowest price paid per item = 3.34

1239 average number of pence per delivery member ÷ 3.34 = 371

That's correct the average duty has 371 resedential delivery points. Other than the rurals there isn't a single duty in our D.O with this few, the average is 600. Where are the D.O's with these duties, I'm willing to transfer!

[citypostie]

D2D average 2 per week across the country. with average member payments of £12.39. 79,000 currently receive D2D payments, 27,000 do not.

Based on the information they're quoting in order to sell this:

2 average number of DTD accross the country x 1.67 the lowest price paid per item = 3.34

1239 average number of pence per delivery member ÷ 3.34 = 371

That's correct the average duty has 371 resedential delivery points. Other than the rurals there isn't a single duty in our D.O with this few, the average is 600. Where are the D.O's with these duties, I'm willing to transfer!

The first delivery I had about 15 years ago had 380 residential calls, the one I'm on now has 694 and the largest in my section has 870, the average like you say is about 600. I have had 3 d2ds every week for months now so depending on how heavy and awkward they are have been getting paid between £40 to £50 as if I would vote to get £20 for doing the same work or in reality alot more-it doesn't matter what scare stories or propaganda the cwu or rm come out with I will be voting no and so will any right minded delivery person - even my manager said she couldn't believe the union had agreed to it and she'd vote against it in our position, that shows how bad a deal it is.

I noticed in the report that it was mentioned about RM wanting to put d2d in an envelope for us to deliver - is that going to happen or was that before the union agreed to us doing them for free so it won't be happening now?

[cityfc]

D2D average 2 per week across the country. with average member payments of £12.39. 79,000 currently receive D2D payments, 27,000 do not.

Based on the information they're quoting in order to sell this:

2 average number of DTD accross the country x 1.67 the lowest price paid per item = 3.34

1239 average number of pence per delivery member ÷ 3.34 = 371

That's correct the average duty has 371 resedential delivery points. Other than the rurals there isn't a single duty in our D.O with this few, the average is 600. Where are the D.O's with these duties, I'm willing to transfer!

Well I can say is your rurals are lucky,in our office most rurals are equal or larger than towns,and we have to take town parcels/packets.

[flagaman]

thanks tamsky for posting this. Like most people on this site i am against this agreement, but having just read this info from bournmouth im now really confussed as to how im going to vote. It does seem quite obvious to me, that this is really all about the pension deficit.

[dvbuk55]

thanks tamsky for posting this. Like most people on this site i am against this agreement, but having just read this info from bournmouth im now really confussed as to how im going to vote. It does seem quite obvious to me, that this is really all about the pension deficit.

Lets not get carried away here, it was the Union who decoupled the pension from the 2007 agreement played as a master stroke they said and I quote "we have managed to decouple the pension from this agreement" - WHY - because they knew it would kill the yes vote - lo and behold 2 years later they are using the same card in reverse to GET a yes vote. Is there no end to the duplicity this leadership will not stoop to and still expect the membership to support them - well the obvious answer is NO.

As for the pension deficit? It is larger now than it was 3 years ago and getting worse and the union have had two years at least to get a closure on the issue by cosying up to the labour government - they now would have us believe that if we agree the pension will be sorted in TWO MONTHS.................... wow was that a pound of bacon flying by?

[crusher]

thanks tamsky for posting this. Like most people on this site i am against this agreement, but having just read this info from bournmouth im now really confussed as to how im going to vote. It does seem quite obvious to me, that this is really all about the pension deficit.

Lets not get carried away here, it was the Union who decoupled the pension from the 2007 agreement played as a master stroke they said and I quote "we have managed to decouple the pension from this agreement" - WHY - because they knew it would kill the yes vote - lo and behold 2 years later they are using the same card in reverse to GET a yes vote. Is there no end to the duplicity this leadership will not stoop to and still expect the membership to support them - well the obvious answer is NO.

As for the pension deficit? It is larger now than it was 3 years ago and getting worse and the union have had two years at least to get a closure on the issue by cosying up to the labour government - they now would have us believe that if we agree the pension will be sorted in TWO MONTHS.................... wow was that a pound of bacon flying by?

Very, very true. I did post something regarding this a while back. One of the main reasons this union has lost some support in recent years.

[Guevarista]

WE ARE DELIVERING TNT's DIRECT MAIL (D2D's)... THE PROBLEM IS IN THE PRICING AND PRESENTATION, NOT THE DELIVERY.... RM OPENLY DISPLAY THEIR PRICING AND PRESENT IT ONLINE WITH ALL THE PANACHE OF A 1930s SOVIET BORSTCH MENU... TNT USE SLICK PRESENTATION AND HAVE MORE SENSE THAN TO PUBLISH THEIR PRICES ONLINE... WE'RE NOT ONLY BEING SHAFTED BY THE OPPOSITION, BUT ALSO BY THE NAIVETY & INEPTITUDE OF OUR OWN ORGANISATION... NOT TO MENTION OUR SO-CALLED UNION!

GET ORGANISED NOW!

DON'T DUMP THE UNION... DUMP THE USELESS REPS!

DEMAND MEETINGS... DEMAND BALLOTS... DEMAND ACTION!

[Big Daz]

thanks tamsky for posting this. Like most people on this site i am against this agreement, but having just read this info from bournmouth im now really confussed as to how im going to vote. It does seem quite obvious to me, that this is really all about the pension deficit.

Lets not get carried away here, it was the Union who decoupled the pension from the 2007 agreement played as a master stroke they said and I quote "we have managed to decouple the pension from this agreement" - WHY - because they knew it would kill the yes vote - lo and behold 2 years later they are using the same card in reverse to GET a yes vote. Is there no end to the duplicity this leadership will not stoop to and still expect the membership to support them - well the obvious answer is NO.

As for the pension deficit? It is larger now than it was 3 years ago and getting worse and the union have had two years at least to get a closure on the issue by cosying up to the labour government - they now would have us believe that if we agree the pension will be sorted in TWO MONTHS.................... wow was that a pound of bacon flying by?

There is no hope what so ever of this government taking on the deficit without a modernisation deal, that is solid fact.
If you feel that has led to the powers that be getting a less than viable set of proposals then so be it.

2007 pension decoupling was voted in by the membership of their own free will, as it was not a majority of ballot papers despatched being returned yes. I belive the mandate was very weak.

[Big Daz]

The DOMS cant stop you having saturdays off, we have people who only work saturdays and if read carefully , youll see that reflected in the wording.


Some people might not want saturdays off.

[dvbuk55]

The DOMS cant stop you having saturdays off, we have people who only work saturdays and if read carefully , youll see that reflected in the wording.


Some people might not want saturdays off.

You are deluded if you think people don't want Saturday off particularly now that they are going to be longer days.

As for the pension, don't bullshit people, we did NOT have a vote on the pension in 2007, we were presented with the ballot without the pension issue and was promised another ballot which has never happened.

As for this deal and the pension - it seems the union trot out the pension issue as and when BUT it never gets sorted. Now is there a cast iron promise that the pension deficit will be accepted by this government - in short NO.

As I have previously stated this issue of the deficit has been rolling around for two years and more and exactly what has the union done to force the issue - well FA springs to mind and if they couldn't get the government to accept liability at a 3Bn deficit three years ago what chances on a 10Bn deficit NOW - us signing the deal? - show me the paperwork and I will vote YES. Empty promises are exactly that - devoid of any content.

[Pinky 1]

As i've said in a previous thread, the only way i could even consider voting yes for this agreement, is if the pension hole is filled and everything put back as it was forcasted to be paid. I'm going to lose out moneywise in this agreement, but i would take the hit in the short term 'cause i've got a lot of years tied up in that fund. Also a lot of my hard earned as well.
Now, can someone show me a guarantee in writing, cause i aint voting yes on a promise

[headscrewedon]

FROM A NON UNION MEMBER : THIS DEAL STINKS

Who cares what a non member thinks?

Every union member should.
Because every non-member is a potential member and if this deal is supposed to convince them to join then the union has had it.

You could be absolutely right there. We should care what non-members think, because it is ALL our interests to persuade them to join. If people fail to join when they first start the job, and most of those who retire / take EVR are CWU members, then the long-term effect will be an ever-shrinking percentage of union members in RM. How is that going to help any of us ?

I'll be honest, when we've been out on strike in the past, I've always thrown comments back at the non-union people when we've got an agreement out of RM. I'd say things like 'I take it you won't be accepting the pay rise that our strikes won?'

Got to admit, I was at a loss for words when I went in on Tuesday and a P/T bloke said 'I assume I won't be subjected to the pay cut that your useless union won for us, then ?'

[dvbuk55]

The odd thing is that no one seems to care at the top that the head count is falling and continues to fall. New starters see no point in joining the union and that in itself is surely an indictment of the current leadership.

This deal will drive current members to do two things, firstly many will withdraw from the union altogether and those that continue to subscribe will no longer support calls for action which, with this deal, will surely happen.

The long term prognosis for the CWU is not very good, despite their suggestion that by 2013 the FT count will be at 75% is ridiculous in itself, but it does not point out EXACTLY HOW MANY EMPLOYEES THERE WILL BE BY THEN.

The only way this union will survive in the long term is to amalgate with another union and has the last one been a resounding success? Well this deal says it all.

[Tamsky]

It seems to me that delivery members are being asked to support this agreement with vital pieces of info missing.
Many units supported the strike action over RM managers using intimidation to hit unagreed work rates.
In my area individual performance standards were a moveable feast - 25 a min of ips and prep "downdialed" by 10% to 22.5, then 18 offered as rate by senior RM manager. Soon quoted as 23.75 a minute or 85% EP as per the old PBS agreement.

What is the agreed rate going to be.? And will it be realistic.

On D2D it is unacceptable that this is pro rata for part time staff - many of whom throw in duties and deliver D2D. I agree that D2D needs to go into workload to protect FT jobs and Bob Gibson made a good case for trapping earnings before RM withdraw altogether. Pro rata payments need to be defeated in the ballot.

Later Saturdays are another big issue which could be solved if less saturdays worked but we need to know how to achieve this first.

Safest option in delivery is a No vote. But given that the Agreement has little impact on Network and Distribution it can safely be assumed that this group will vote Yes. Processing face big job losses and MC closures but will this result in a No vote from them.

It still sticks in my gullet that Pay n Mod was landed on delivery in similar circumstances and it may be the same this time.