Why shouldn't a Postman / Woman get minimum wage?

[andy2007]

The reason they gave at the time, was that it would have effectively been a pay cut, for the former PHGs. So they got to keep the money, through Grandfather Rights.

There are a lot of other former allowances that are also covered by Grandfather Rights. Such as the £6 (gross) I still get, for Reserved Rights Driving Allowance.

I know that it seems unfair, that they get more money, for doing the same job. But the alternative, would have involved giving them a pay cut. Would you have allowed RM to cut your wages?

[Ethilfrog]

The reason they gave at the time, was that it would have effectively been a pay cut, for the former PHGs. So they got to keep the money, through Grandfather Rights.

There are a lot of other former allowances that are also covered by Grandfather Rights. Such as the £6 (gross) I still get, for Reserved Rights Driving Allowance.

I know that it seems unfair, that they get more money, for doing the same job. But the alternative, would have involved giving them a pay cut. Would you have allowed RM to cut your wages?

The answer to this -- as used in my civil service job in my previous life -- is 'mark time pay'. That is, you keep your previous allowances but don't get the annual pay rises until the rest catch up. For instance, a lot of civil servants did well out of this when their jobs were dispersed out of London in the 1980s, as they kept the London weighting for a few years before they 'caught up'.

I think this is pretty well what you mean by 'Grandfather Rights'. No problem about this, no-one wants a pay cut nor do we want to impose it on others.

For the ex-PHGs, the OT and SA rates are indeed on 'mark time' (though it's taking an enormous time for this to happen, I think actually OT may have caught up at last). But the extra £20 a week they get just for being 'ex', isn't. It is permanent. Where is the justification for this when I'm expected to be able to do everything they do, and without anything extra?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Where is the justification for this when I'm expected to be able to do everything they do, and without anything extra?

Its in their contract and part of an agreement that the Union entered into with RM it would be unlawful if it was changed. Also if they did not get the same pay rise percentage as the rest of the workforce it would in effect mean a pay cut year on year.

TBH if money or higher wages is your main concern then you could always apply to become a manager, although I am speculating that their long term employment prospects as a group is only being bolstered at the moment because the companys main target is the Union rather than the Association.

[tiredwalker]

i think there should also be a sliding scale of wages dependent on how long a service you have.....i personally dont think that someone with say 30 years of time in should be on the same wage as a person who has done 1 year....maybe if Royal Fail paid its staff a loyalty bonus for each year they stayed with them after say a minimum of 3 years it could keep staff that have valuable experience in the different tasks involved in the job 9its a nightmare in my office with the turnover of new staff not knowing how to sort etc) ......also drivers and PHG staff are no longer paid for the different type of skills they have to use (unlike the good old days)

RM already pay on a sliding scale but disguise it in work load every year they increase your work load for the same money or a little extra if we are lucky, therefore we are on a decling wage year on year.

[not me]

i think there should also be a sliding scale of wages dependent on how long a service you have.....i personally dont think that someone with say 30 years of time in should be on the same wage as a person who has done 1 year....maybe if Royal Fail paid its staff a loyalty bonus for each year they stayed with them after say a minimum of 3 years it could keep staff that have valuable experience in the different tasks involved in the job 9its a nightmare in my office with the turnover of new staff not knowing how to sort etc) ......also drivers and PHG staff are no longer paid for the different type of skills they have to use (unlike the good old days)

having done pretty much all duties in a DO
why do you feel a driver deserves more money? the drivers allowance was originally to make up for loss of D2D's wasnt it?
PHG'ing to a point i can see but in general not humphing a load around is seen as the perk surely?
in our office we have gone park & loop and many drivers are now on light duties/off sick after having to do walks

[andy2007]

i think there should also be a sliding scale of wages dependent on how long a service you have.....i personally dont think that someone with say 30 years of time in should be on the same wage as a person who has done 1 year....maybe if Royal Fail paid its staff a loyalty bonus for each year they stayed with them after say a minimum of 3 years it could keep staff that have valuable experience in the different tasks involved in the job 9its a nightmare in my office with the turnover of new staff not knowing how to sort etc) ......also drivers and PHG staff are no longer paid for the different type of skills they have to use (unlike the good old days)

having done pretty much all duties in a DO
why do you feel a driver deserves more money? the drivers allowance was originally to make up for loss of D2D's wasnt it?
PHG'ing to a point i can see but in general not humphing a load around is seen as the perk surely?
in our office we have gone park & loop and many drivers are now on light duties/off sick after having to do walks

No, I think that drivers should, get more money (but not too much more). Because of the extra responsibility. If you make a mistake on foot, the odds of you causing serious injury, or killing, someone else, is very slim. But if you're driving a vehicle on the roads, and you make a mistake. You could potentially kill someone. So the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the allowance should be. Although, I do agree that it shouldn't be excessive. Just enough, to reward people for taking on that extra responsibility.

But I don't see why we should get more money than those with less seniority. Does the job become harder, or involve more responsibility, just because we've been doing it for a long time?

[smokerjim]

i think there should also be a sliding scale of wages dependent on how long a service you have.....i personally dont think that someone with say 30 years of time in should be on the same wage as a person who has done 1 year....maybe if Royal Fail paid its staff a loyalty bonus for each year they stayed with them after say a minimum of 3 years it could keep staff that have valuable experience in the different tasks involved in the job 9its a nightmare in my office with the turnover of new staff not knowing how to sort etc) ......also drivers and PHG staff are no longer paid for the different type of skills they have to use (unlike the good old days)

RM already pay on a sliding scale but disguise it in work load every year they increase your work load for the same money or a little extra if we are lucky, therefore we are on a decling wage year on year.

Close but no cigar, TW. What RM actually do is base it upon expected workloads. So wear a blue shirt, hump 60+ kgs a day while walking up to 10 miles & get physically wrecked for £300. Wear any shirt you like, push some Yorks drink some coffee from the machine, go home early, get paid a lot more than a postie & get a tidy bonus, or wear a smug look on your face, push some papers, drink coffee not made by a machine, turn up and go home when you want ( and don't bother about Saturdays ) and earn enough to not force your missus out to earn an extra wage with a bonus bigger than what some part timers are able to earn in 6 months. Or the best yet, wear a superior ( yet somewhat constipated ) look on your face, push your snout into the trough, drink fine clarets and single malts, and earn enough to shame an MP ( with enough brass neck to shame a Euro MP ), with bonus payments that could define "obscene" in the dictionary.......and all of it from an entire career totally devoid of any acceptable sense of success or achievement.

[tiredwalker]

Close but no cigar, TW. What RM actually do is base it upon expected workloads. So wear a blue shirt, hump 60+ kgs a day while walking up to 10 miles & get physically wrecked for £300. Wear any shirt you like, push some Yorks drink some coffee from the machine, go home early, get paid a lot more than a postie & get a tidy bonus, or wear a smug look on your face, push some papers, drink coffee not made by a machine, turn up and go home when you want ( and don't bother about Saturdays ) and earn enough to not force your missus out to earn an extra wage with a bonus bigger than what some part timers are able to earn in 6 months. Or the best yet, wear a superior ( yet somewhat constipated ) look on your face, push your snout into the trough, drink fine clarets and single malts, and earn enough to shame an MP ( with enough brass neck to shame a Euro MP ), with bonus payments that could define "obscene" in the dictionary.......and all of it from an entire career totally devoid of any acceptable sense of success or achievement.

You missed the bit about prancing around in their new Managers Hi Vis (which they did not wear when they were the same as ours) like they are on a cat walk!

[smokerjim]

Close but no cigar, TW. What RM actually do is base it upon expected workloads. So wear a blue shirt, hump 60+ kgs a day while walking up to 10 miles & get physically wrecked for £300. Wear any shirt you like, push some Yorks drink some coffee from the machine, go home early, get paid a lot more than a postie & get a tidy bonus, or wear a smug look on your face, push some papers, drink coffee not made by a machine, turn up and go home when you want ( and don't bother about Saturdays ) and earn enough to not force your missus out to earn an extra wage with a bonus bigger than what some part timers are able to earn in 6 months. Or the best yet, wear a superior ( yet somewhat constipated ) look on your face, push your snout into the trough, drink fine clarets and single malts, and earn enough to shame an MP ( with enough brass neck to shame a Euro MP ), with bonus payments that could define "obscene" in the dictionary.......and all of it from an entire career totally devoid of any acceptable sense of success or achievement.

You missed the bit about prancing around in their new Managers Hi Vis (which they did not wear when they were the same as ours) like they are on a cat walk!

Silly me - I forgot how proud they seem, wearing something that makes them stand out from the drones ( without noticing that it makes them look like a smaller, clique-ier group of drones )

[quadeck]

To be fair theres alot harder jobs for less money.

clearly not a postie you've gotta think what you are saying, one thing is clear - there are a lot of much easier jobs where people earn lots more money than a postie

Fair enough I was only a postie for 2 years. Part time but worked fulltime. Different delivery every day without training. Even so it was an easy job compared to some. Since I've done a bit of volunteering work in Romainia, and back in England work as a Refuse worker. I'll take minimum wage anyday, as long as I don't have to listen to posties constant moaning, when their only asked to do their job.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

To be fair theres alot harder jobs for less money.

clearly not a postie you've gotta think what you are saying, one thing is clear - there are a lot of much easier jobs where people earn lots more money than a postie

Fair enough I was only a postie for 2 years. Part time but worked fulltime. Different delivery every day without training. Even so it was an easy job compared to some. Since I've done a bit of volunteering work in Romainia, and back in England work as a Refuse worker. I'll take minimum wage anyday, as long as I don't have to listen to posties constant moaning, when their only asked to do their job.

Why would a Binman have to listen to posties moan - also plenty of refuse workers all over the country are complaining and threatening strike action and they are on about the same pay as us.

If you don't like people moaning why join a forum. A forum is a place for discussing things and that does indeed include complaining.

Could I also take issue with "only asked to do their job" - as it ignores the pressure put on posties when they can't fit it into their working day, as as the businesses states in - when time permits. When people are refused overtime when lapsing makes them go over, when the DOM insists that you have to get public transport out to the lapsed round before you start your own duty and the buses only run once per hour so you are delayed a minimum of 1 hr 20 minutes to deliver 10 minutes of a duty, and then refuse to pay OT because you go over.

Yes there are harder jobs I have done a few, and there are easier jobs. Guess what everyone moans about their Jobs I bet even Adam does