Paid below the National Minimum Wage!

[TopperGas]

AVC's seem the big one, so somebody who gained by getting the pension payments free of income tax and NI and now RM are being forced to reimburse the payments in full.

No wonder this country is in the state it is as surely any well run country's Government would say that's just nonsense as if an employee couldn't afford the voluntary payments they wouldn't be making them in the first place.

[A2B]

AVC's seem the big one, so somebody who gained by getting the pension payments free of income tax and NI and now RM are being forced to reimburse the payments in full.

No wonder this country is in the state it is as surely any well run country's Government would say that's just nonsense as if an employee couldn't afford the voluntary payments they wouldn't be making them in the first place.

We had a chat at work today because obviously people are curious as to what the criteria was, the guy who got payment doesn't have AVC while another who got zero and is on the same rest week does pay AVC so not sure about that

[citypostie]

Royal mail always wanted to get rid of wally weeks, I bet this will make them wish they had!;
Nice free money for people thiugh, so going forward does this mean this will happen again unless they are going to pay wally week people more for being on them?

[scoobydo79]

In our office it seems old contract, week off guys who rarely if ever booked any overtime got the payment

[A2B]

Royal mail always wanted to get rid of wally weeks, I bet this will make them wish they had!;
Nice free money for people thiugh, so going forward does this mean this will happen again unless they are going to pay wally week people more for being on them?

if it is down to Salary Sacrifice it's probably not an issue anymore because I don't think there's many things available.

This certainly isn't a thing affecting everyone on Wallington weeks but it also includes some other shift patterns so do they withdraw them all?

[citypostie]

Royal mail always wanted to get rid of wally weeks, I bet this will make them wish they had!;
Nice free money for people thiugh, so going forward does this mean this will happen again unless they are going to pay wally week people more for being on them?

if it is down to Salary Sacrifice it's probably not an issue anymore because I don't think there's many things available.

This certainly isn't a thing affecting everyone on Wallington weeks but it also includes some other shift patterns so do they withdraw them all?

Knowing royal mail would you be surprised if they did or at least tried?

[TopperGas]

Royal mail always wanted to get rid of wally weeks, I bet this will make them wish they had!;
Nice free money for people thiugh, so going forward does this mean this will happen again unless they are going to pay wally week people more for being on them?

if it is down to Salary Sacrifice it's probably not an issue anymore because I don't think there's many things available.

This certainly isn't a thing affecting everyone on Wallington weeks but it also includes some other shift patterns so do they withdraw them all?

You can still make the pension bonus matching payments along with AVC's, it also looks like the Dental & Healthcare schemes can still be purchased along with the season ticket loans.

If the employees getting over £2,000 this week still have all the same deductions from their pay are they now on course to get another similar payment again next year?

What about previous years as somebody who is £2,000 down this year must have been at least £1,000+ down in the past?

Surprised the union are saying they are not involved, as you'd have thought they'd be all over this issue given the sums potentially involved.

[DGH]

RM could easily avoid this happening again by giving a decent pay rise...

[loyalsnail]

Salary sacrifice is a low hanging fruit. Does it make a difference? Yes. Does it make a significance difference? No.

Sorry you have to explain that to me, because it looks like the difference in someone recieving £200 and another £1000

Let's assume someone is on a 30hr contract, which is pretty normal. They work 1560hrs a year and receive a £1000 as arrears. Their hourly rate is £13.06 against nmw of £12.21, so they also have £0.85 of clearance vs nmw for every hour worked.

In order to have arrears of £1000 they would need to have spent £2326 on salary sacrifice. That's £45 per week on salary sacrifice. Only dental, travel and health insurance have been available.

How many people do you know who have spent that much on salary sacrifice? Why would anyone spend that much on salary sacrifice?

-----

Now look at someone on a Wallington work rota who works an extra six hours per week for 43 weeks of the year in order to get nine rest weeks.

They work 36hrs each week they when and get paid for 30hrs. They need to earn £439 to not be below nmw. They actually earn £392 so are owed £47. That's £2000 they are owed during a year, only they don't have to work bank holidays, so that's seven weeks that they don't work 36hrs. They also have five weeks of leave to take, so that's another five weeks that they don't work 36hrs. The 43 weeks they are owed £47 is now down to 31 weeks and their arrears is down to £1457.

Their mate works the same rota, except their rest will falls on another week so they only work 42 weeks in the year and get ten weeks off. They're owed £47 less. They also had their five weeks of leave split across eight weeks, that's another £141 less that they receive, so they get about £1,300.

A third colleague doing the same shift has a Mrs who is a nurse and works shifts. He has childcare issues so is allowed to take his annual leave two days at a time across 12 weeks. He also works 42 weeks and gets ten off, he also has seven weeks with bank holidays but his annual leave means he's only owed £47 for a total of 23 weeks, so he gets £1081.

A fourth colleague is on the same rotation, has the same childcare issues and the same annual leave arrangement. He also has 23 weeks where he's paid £47 short, but he also has a low immune system so is off sick with a cold for six days spread across six separate weeks. So in the end he has 17 weeks where he works more hours than he's paid and he's owed £731.

Four colleagues doing "the same work pattern" but one gets £1457 whilst another gets half that at £731.

Work schedules are the main issue, personal circumstances then get added into the mix to make two people receive massively different amounts.

[loyalsnail]

RM could easily avoid this happening again by giving a decent pay rise...

Or by removing Wallington's

[DGH]

RM could easily avoid this happening again by giving a decent pay rise...

Or by removing Wallington's

I'd rather they gave a decent pay rise myself.

Given RM must have seen this coming, if it were easy for them to remove Wallington weeks, they would surely have done so.

[loyalsnail]

It's not easy to remove Wallington's and it's costing the company millions of pounds in nmw technical compliance issues as a result, which effectively bumps up the hourly rates of those receiving arrears.

You want a pay rise? You've just had it (or rather will get it on Friday).

[A2B]

Thanks for the explanation

I wonder how you could show the workings but RM can't or won't

[TopperGas]

Salary sacrifice is a low hanging fruit. Does it make a difference? Yes. Does it make a significance difference? No.

Sorry you have to explain that to me, because it looks like the difference in someone recieving £200 and another £1000

Let's assume someone is on a 30hr contract, which is pretty normal. They work 1560hrs a year and receive a £1000 as arrears. Their hourly rate is £13.06 against nmw of £12.21, so they also have £0.85 of clearance vs nmw for every hour worked.

In order to have arrears of £1000 they would need to have spent £2326 on salary sacrifice. That's £45 per week on salary sacrifice. Only dental, travel and health insurance have been available.

How many people do you know who have spent that much on salary sacrifice? Why would anyone spend that much on salary sacrifice?

-----

Now look at someone on a Wallington work rota who works an extra six hours per week for 43 weeks of the year in order to get nine rest weeks.

They work 36hrs each week they when and get paid for 30hrs. They need to earn £439 to not be below nmw. They actually earn £392 so are owed £47. That's £2000 they are owed during a year, only they don't have to work bank holidays, so that's seven weeks that they don't work 36hrs. They also have five weeks of leave to take, so that's another five weeks that they don't work 36hrs. The 43 weeks they are owed £47 is now down to 31 weeks and their arrears is down to £1457.

Their mate works the same rota, except their rest will falls on another week so they only work 42 weeks in the year and get ten weeks off. They're owed £47 less. They also had their five weeks of leave split across eight weeks, that's another £141 less that they receive, so they get about £1,300.

A third colleague doing the same shift has a Mrs who is a nurse and works shifts. He has childcare issues so is allowed to take his annual leave two days at a time across 12 weeks. He also works 42 weeks and gets ten off, he also has seven weeks with bank holidays but his annual leave means he's only owed £47 for a total of 23 weeks, so he gets £1081.

A fourth colleague is on the same rotation, has the same childcare issues and the same annual leave arrangement. He also has 23 weeks where he's paid £47 short, but he also has a low immune system so is off sick with a cold for six days spread across six separate weeks. So in the end he has 17 weeks where he works more hours than he's paid and he's owed £731.

Four colleagues doing "the same work pattern" but one gets £1457 whilst another gets half that at £731.

Work schedules are the main issue, personal circumstances then get added into the mix to make two people receive massively different amounts.

That's not how it seems to be working in our DO people with no salary sacrifice payments are getting minimal payments those with AVC's etc £1,000+.

If you have no regular deductions your probably not entitled to any payments.

[Hitcher]

In order to have arrears of £1000 they would need to have spent £2326 on salary sacrifice. That's £45 per week on salary sacrifice. Only dental, travel and health insurance have been available.

You've missed pensions and AVC's.