London Dispute Update

[dvbuk55]

Very well put Fish.
I completely agree with your analysis, Are you Columbo or Petrocelli

Well I think he's Columbo, because he knows what the outcome is before the scenario is played out

[north london driver]

before everyone starts jumping on the bandwaggon about london getting all they
want lets wait and see what is put on the table. it could all blow up with no agreement
being reached or its just giving management a bit more time to plan on how to beat a strike.
there are some great rumors about, like one office (MLO) will not be shutting down due to
a manager falsifying the figures.but then i cannot beleave that could you.
the other one is the largest of the M.L.Os is to become an mosque! (that could be true).

[dvbuk55]

And the way to combat rumour.................simply be open and honest as to what is being discussed and perhaps begin by having the all inclusive members consultation after all it is supposed to BE all issues ......I suppose that will come after the chatter.

[Martin Walsh]

Some the posts on this thread are way off the mark. The way industrial action ballots are detailed in law is that you have to take strike action within 28 days of the ballot result other wise the ballot becomes invalid. You have to give seven days notice of action so the CWU would have had to annoucne the action before Monday 13th June.

The fact that there was a possible stike and service disruption meant that the London talks took place first. The London talks does not stray into the national talks and there is no chance of any trade off on a national issue. The London issue is purely about the issue of complusory redundnacies as a result of Royal Mail"s London plan and therefore the talks only concern how this plan can be changed.

The National Talks concern the issue of job security moving forward, the new business plan , the pension issues , the review of the current national agreement and colleague share. Of course these are important and needs to take place but there is no ballot in place and from most on here they say they would not support the call for a ballot. This is why the London talks are taking place first because Royal Mail want to try and avoid a strike.

Now there is a lot to resolve on the London issue and Royal Mail have agreed to an extension to the ballot till next Friday and this is why talks will continue.

Royal Mail may have a strategy to either settle the national issues and not the London issues or the other way round. However the biggest two prizes Royal Mail want at this moment in time is European State aid apporoval which will help turn around the company as it will then resolve the pension deficit.

Does the company get even of those things if it has a dispute ?

[dvbuk55]

Well there are two issues, how big the London dispute and the liklihood of ALL the issues not being settled a further IA where we are ALL involved over the issues that concern the whole of the membership.

[fishtank]

None of your post changes a thing dingo.
The result of the talks on London will directly effect the direction taken on the national talks.
How could it be any other way?

So...the question still remains...
If the talks on London fail to bring a resolution will their even be national talks?
I somehow doubt Dave Ward will walk out of one set of talks an angry man,dust himself down and walk into a fresh set of talks on different issues with virtually the same people.

Alternatively if London does reach an amicable "arrangement" with Royal Mail would the LDC put that at risk by balloting it's members again,this time over national issues.

I would also presume that Royal Mail are unlikely to want to enter into National talks over their new business plan(that no-one has seen yet),colleagueshares and job security with London members standing at the gate.
That's not usually how it works.

[gb93]

:dcfo [quote="dingo"]





Royal Mail may have a strategy to either settle the national issues and not the London issues or the other way round.


And by holding separate talks HQ are playing into their hands.
It smacks to me of London coming 1st and a deal on London issues is all important.
And if HQ don't get want they want for London they will threaten RM with a ballot for national IA
And try to con the membership that it is national issues they want to resolve.

[dvbuk55]

:dcfo

Royal Mail may have a strategy to either settle the national issues and not the London issues or the other way round.


And by holding separate talks HQ are playing into their hands.
It smacks to me of London coming 1st and a deal on London issues is all important.
And if HQ don't get want they want for London they will threaten RM with a ballot for national IA
And try to con the membership that it is national issues they want to resolve.

Nothing new under the sun then

[feduppostie]

our managers have already been asked what days they are available to cover any London issues

they are all chomping at the bit to go down

the union yet again have failed the majority by concentrating on London


************** newsflash ***************************

as far as my office goes no-one will support an IA ballot if it mentions London

the word on the 'street' is they are only going through what we have already and they didn't give a shite when we went through it so why would we care when they go through it

as I have said before RM is now made up of people on 25 hr contracts who don't think they will be here in a year - they don't care about pensions or pay rises as it will not affect them they will break any strike and earn as much as they can

the union need to wise up and realise this is not the 1970's

[Martin Walsh]

Fish you could not attempt to resolve the national issues within the London talks as you would have London Divisional Reps and Management dealing with the national issues. The reason they have to be there is that they both know the plans details , clear choice and numbers etc. Now how many on here would complain if the London Divisional Reps were in on the talks to resolve the national issues.

The London talks are complex because it involves changing protentially a plan which has knock on effects in terms of supplying additional machines to Kent , Croydon and of course the peoples isses.

It simply could not be resolved on the basis of one set of talks.

Now if the issues of London cannot be resolved and Royal Mail move ahead with complusory redundancies then there is a national dispute as that is the policy of the CWU where ever it takes place in Scotland , Wales. Belfast or the North or South West. It just so happens that the first move torwards compusory redundacies is happening in London. But it will happen else where if you allow Royal Mail to get away with it. London achieved a further six yes votes in the distribution hubs last Wednesday.

Most Divisions and Branch"s know that and have done work to tell their members of the threat of CR in London.

Now if there are CRs the agreement is protenntially dead as the union only agreed the deal on the basis it would be done without CR. Royal Mail know that as does ACAS and Roger Poole.

Now if there is a deal to be done in London then yes the national issues will have to be resolved and there will be talks.

[Martin Walsh]

In addition Fishtank when the national union got a NO vote in the national talks and London got a Yes vote for London Weighting and took strike action which led to up too 3 weeks of unofficial strike action. The talks held was on the unofficial dispute and once that was resolved the Pay and Major change agreement was then negotitated which resolved the national issues.

That deal included £26.28 pay rise - the 5 day week for delivery staff for the first time. Do you really think that would have been achieved on the back of a national no vote. No it was on the back of the London Yes vote the unofficial dispute where places like Covertry , Postmouth , Southend and Warrington all went out with London and forced Royal Mail to further talks.

So some of you need to understand that you cannot resolve the national issues and the London issues all in one set of talks. For Royal Mail it would be pointless discussing the national issues which would force London into taking strike action and then have the prospect ofother sites going out as they do not want to touch unagreed diversions.

Spin it anyway you want it does come down to the fact that strike action is an immenent in London whereas it is not on the national issues. The threat of Royal Mail moving further work in London is also immenent. Anyone who knows the postal executive will know they do intend to resolve the national issues and have hired a company to examine Royal Mail"s finances in relation to colleague share.

[drb]

I can personally understand why the London division are treated differently,as we as an office are also treated differently. Attacks against our reps recently has been prominent. Plenty of stage 3 disagreements.
The biggest bullying and harassment charges against the employer. So much so that they have sent plenty of "fire fighters" from the outside to find out why our industrial relations are so bad. Only for these independent reports to "disappear".

The famous "interim agreement" in which some offices/divisions hate created plenty of "wins" for us in terms of making up part timers to full time as well as well as lapsing etc. However their are some elements of senior management that hate us. Fact.

I have seen a previous DSM sit across a desk and just stare at the rep without saying anything,( after losing a legal case). Fact. Other offices within our area are treated better as they prep D2D's in their own time,come in early,get mail dropped to their houses,work on their holidays,critisise the union agreements to line managers,don't have a rep.

[Stormproof]

our managers have already been asked what days they are available to cover any London issues

they are all chomping at the bit to go down

Managers in my office also been asked and they can't wait for their beano to London

[fishtank]

You don't think any of that happens elsewhere drb?....really?

[dvbuk55]

Anyone who knows the postal executive will know they do intend to resolve the national issues and have hired a company to examine Royal Mail"s finances in relation to colleague share.

If there was an independent company looking into the staffing levels in various areas and in consequence the ratio of work to staff and it was published in an open document would we be surprised at the conclusions