norris9 wrote:
Although not what a break is designed for, but what do you think about skipping breaks and instead leaving early. I think this is how many Posties play it (if they can), they effectively take their break at the end of the round by getting to go home early.
Skipping a break and trying to effectively take it by finishing early was my approach when I first joined (in part though because the duty end times I was put on were later than those stated in the job advert but that's another story!).
However this is a bad approach. If you finish early without taking a break then all that is recorded is that you took xx minutes less to finish the duty against the official end time. You may be contributing to that duty being revised and more work being put on it which not only affects you but others who do that duty but start on time and take their breaks during their duty. This is an ever increasing possibility going forward with the productivity/modernisation program RM will be taking forward.
It took me a while to change but I now do the job properly, take my breaks and finish on time which means more money for me as I often cover full time duties so ensure I get the full overtime associated with the end time for the shift that day.
We have a number of posties who come in early and finish 1-2 hours before their end time some days (most are full timers who get paid irrespective of finishing early). They could be in for a rude awakening at some point soon but unfortunately the culture in our DO will not change until it's too late and we will have caused more work for ourselves
Ren Hoëk wrote:I absolutely understand what you are saying. But my god, I personally would 100% take my break and love to see their muggy little faces.
If your partner says anything that could be perceived as intimidation. Take it straight to your boss. It is them who has the problem. Not you. If it continues, escalate it. Keep an accurate diary the whole time. If it continues. Seek private legal advice. People (within the company and outside of it) have fought very hard for these rights, We should protect them.
Although not what a break is designed for, but what do you think about skipping breaks and instead leaving early. I think this is how many Posties play it (if they can), they effectively take their break at the end of the round by getting to go home early. I'd prefer to do the same, but the thing is - I am not having a break and I am not leaving early. I either leave on time or leave late with zero breaks.
I will see how things go. Out on the walk I'm more or less as fast as I can be. At the depot I am a fair bit slower at bagging up and especially sorting mail into slots. Some time can be made up here, maybe 10 minutes on a typical day, but when there is a tonne of sorting of mail and packages to do when I come in, that costs us a lot of time. But in time, once I get a bit quicker and have experienced a wider variety of walks then I will have a better idea of whether we are overworked or not, whether I can squeeze in a break or not, and then, if not, I can have that conversation with a manager. I think it's too early days to be having that conversation.
Another thing is...apparently Full Timers are entitled to a 20 minute break during the round....Part Timers are entitled to a 30 minute break. It doesn't make much sense.
Whether part or full time all posties are entitled to take half of their break at the end of duty time after they have returned to the DO. The exception to this being where everyone has agreed in an office to take ALL their break before they leave for delivery. A office near us has collectively decided to do this with the union local rep to defend jobs/duties. So in your case you can go home 15 minutes earlier without feeling guilty.
The views I express here are mine alone and do not represent the views of Royal Mail Group.
norris9 wrote:
Although not what a break is designed for, but what do you think about skipping breaks and instead leaving early. I think this is how many Posties play it (if they can), they effectively take their break at the end of the round by getting to go home early.
Skipping a break and trying to effectively take it by finishing early was my approach when I first joined (in part though because the duty end times I was put on were later than those stated in the job advert but that's another story!).
However this is a bad approach. If you finish early without taking a break then all that is recorded is that you took xx minutes less to finish the duty against the official end time. You may be contributing to that duty being revised and more work being put on it which not only affects you but others who do that duty but start on time and take their breaks during their duty. This is an ever increasing possibility going forward with the productivity/modernisation program RM will be taking forward.
It took me a while to change but I now do the job properly, take my breaks and finish on time which means more money for me as I often cover full time duties so ensure I get the full overtime associated with the end time for the shift that day.
We have a number of posties who come in early and finish 1-2 hours before their end time some days (most are full timers who get paid irrespective of finishing early). They could be in for a rude awakening at some point soon but unfortunately the culture in our DO will not change until it's too late and we will have caused more work for ourselves
In full agreement with this except to say in my experience at least half of the staff come in early or very early.
The solution to this is a system of verifiable clocking in and out to show if Postie's coming in early are still working all the hours they are paid for but staggered to an earlier time window.
Alternative scenarios for fixing this problem are:
1) All posties coming in on time and not early. VERY hard to achieve in my opinion.
2) Launch the AHDC system in all offices. Isn't going to happen due to technical problems and resistance from the CWU and RM for entirely different reasons.
3) Stop the additional payments for working early morning/before 6am. Would get RM off our backs, enable more mail to be delivered first time with more customers still at home, and get posties home in time for other commitments. Not going to happen due to opposition potentially from all sides!
The views I express here are mine alone and do not represent the views of Royal Mail Group.
Whether part or full time all posties are entitled to take half of their break at the end of duty time after they have returned to the DO
No they're not.
The WTD states that a minimum of 20 minutes of your break should be taken on or as near as possible to the middle of your working day. That means breaks of less than 40 minutes cannot be split in half.
This is obviously ignored by Royal Mail but part-time staff should by rights be taking their meal relief outdoors not at the beginning which is ridiculous nor at the end. This would obviously give RM some real problems pairing full-time and part-time staff but if people ( and the union ) are genuinely serious about "doing the job properly" it's something they should consider. You can't partially do the job properly.
Seems no1 is going to do the job properly unless RM enforce it...
RM like you to be flexible and come in early on busier days, let your leave early to help you out and like you to work past your hours to help them out. Postmen like to be flexible so they can do whatever they need to do in the afternoon. Flexibility suits both RM and postmen alike.
I'd personally prefer to take my break at the end of my duty and instead leave early. If taken during the round - I wouldn't be doing anything on my 30mins break, I'd just sit staring out the van window wondering where life went wrong. So if RM were to be flexible with this - then great. If there's actually some rule written into law that we should have a break in the middle of our working day then obviously RM should not be flexible with it and it's their duty to ensure you have a break.
Flexibility is ideal. What's not ideal is RM giving you too much work to do that you are constantly working over your contracted hours and not getting paid for it.
norris9 wrote:......If taken during the round - I wouldn't be doing anything on my 30mins break,
That's pretty much what a break is - take a paper or book or audio book with you...
norris9 wrote:What's not ideal is RM giving you too much work to do that you are constantly working over your contracted hours and not getting paid for it.
Either make sure you claim for work carried out or follow the "Royal Mail Avoiding Delay Process" (commonly known as 'cutting off') to the letter.
Don't go down the route of working and not getting paid - once you go down that route it's very difficult to stop it and managers will realise they
can pile work on you, a bit of lapsing here and there, a few new builds on the round, yeah you can take those parcels, unexpected
mass mailings etc. and get away with not paying OT.
Whether part or full time all posties are entitled to take half of their break at the end of duty time after they have returned to the DO
No they're not.
The WTD states that a minimum of 20 minutes of your break should be taken on or as near as possible to the middle of your working day. That means breaks of less than 40 minutes cannot be split in half.
This is obviously ignored by Royal Mail but part-time staff should by rights be taking their meal relief outdoors not at the beginning which is ridiculous nor at the end. This would obviously give RM some real problems pairing full-time and part-time staff but if people ( and the union ) are genuinely serious about "doing the job properly" it's something they should consider. You can't partially do the job properly.
I’d enjoy the job a lot more if I didn’t have the indoor element.
I do love the job but I can’t stand how most walks are 1 loop too much then you have the manager telling you to take your break but then giving you s**t if you do and have to cut off... it’s insane. I’ve never seen a company so heavily reliant on overtime. In my depo if some of the pure work horses didn’t do the overtime they’d be absolutely f*cked.
It’s not nice doing the job correctly then being treated like you’re taking the p*ss.
How do you agree to get paid overtime if you go over? as far as I am aware you have got to get the manager to agree with it before you go out - why?....can't it just be automatic...if you come back 10+ minutes late you get paid for it.
norris9 wrote:How do you agree to get paid overtime if you go over? as far as I am aware you have got to get the manager to agree with it before you go out - why?....can't it just be automatic...if you come back 10+ minutes late you get paid for it.
Where I work we agree to do overtime but also if I happen to go over I’ll tell my manager and he sorts it no problem because obviously 1. It should be done and 2. I’ve done him a favour by going over to get it done
norris9 wrote:Seems no1 is going to do the job properly unless RM enforce it...
RM like you to be flexible and come in early on busier days, let your leave early to help you out and like you to work past your hours to help them out. Postmen like to be flexible so they can do whatever they need to do in the afternoon. Flexibility suits both RM and postmen alike.
I'd personally prefer to take my break at the end of my duty and instead leave early. If taken during the round - I wouldn't be doing anything on my 30mins break, I'd just sit staring out the van window wondering where life went wrong. So if RM were to be flexible with this - then great. If there's actually some rule written into law that we should have a break in the middle of our working day then obviously RM should not be flexible with it and it's their duty to ensure you have a break.
Flexibility is ideal. What's not ideal is RM giving you too much work to do that you are constantly working over your contracted hours and not getting paid for it.
Our biggest gripe/problem is having a boss that runs two offices and spends more time at one,he does 15 mins in the morning at ours,then he’s gone,and just assumes what goes on in the office,part timers never see him st all,he says by not being there is how he manages,well that’s far from ideal,he has his brief from above and gives us the pda actual spill that only affects vsome and leaves the office fragmented and everyone turning on each other about how unfair things are,and what things some will get away with and others won’t,yes I’ve been here some 37 years but it counts for nothing,and as he says maybe not the job for you anymore,and I’d happily go if they offered me out,I wish they would go back to testing the rounds how they should be done,not on a wing and a prayer at break neck cutting corner speed,from start to finish,we don’t ask for much,just the time and fit for purpose equipment to do the job in the allocated time
norris9 wrote:How do you agree to get paid overtime if you go over? as far as I am aware you have got to get the manager to agree with it before you go out - why?....can't it just be automatic...if you come back 10+ minutes late you get paid for it.
Where I work we agree to do overtime but also if I happen to go over I’ll tell my manager and he sorts it no problem because obviously 1. It should be done and 2. I’ve done him a favour by going over to get it done
Sounds good. I don't really know how welcoming they are at my place to Posties coming back and writing overtime into the book, maybe it's something they freely allow and I just don't know about it as nothing has been said to me.
As during the first few weeks of my job I was finishing early I haven't worried about booking overtime when I come back late, but now I am coming back late more often than I'm coming back early.
