Newbie story - looking for advice please

visigoth · Post by **visigoth** » 15 Feb 2018, 07:04

OK. So this is digressing but, what's the score when you go out with a partner in a van & s/he's willing to extend but you're not? (or vice versa)

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 15 Feb 2018, 09:09

visigoth wrote:OK. So this is digressing but, what's the score when you go out with a partner in a van & s/he's willing to extend but you're not? (or vice versa)

You either get theme to drop you back at the office for your finish time or you walk back but you must be able to leave the office by yourfinish time

Post by **rambo1** » 15 Feb 2018, 16:41

Creditshampoo wrote:
visigoth wrote:OK. So this is digressing but, what's the score when you go out with a partner in a van & s/he's willing to extend but you're not? (or vice versa)
You either get theme to drop you back at the office for your finish time or you walk back but you must be able to leave the office by yourfinish time

WALK BACK, not bloomin likely! What if you're 5 miles away from the office?

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 15 Feb 2018, 20:07

visigoth wrote:OK. So this is digressing but, what's the score when you go out with a partner in a van & s/he's willing to extend but you're not? (or vice versa)

That's the manager's decision. Just let him know you aren't working overtime and let him worry about it. He'll probably pressure the partner into doing more.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 16 Feb 2018, 23:07

visigoth wrote:People seem to be missing my point. That it went from a predicted "it'll be tight" to way, WAY over.

I confess I don't understand "a bit more "walking and reading" than I'd have liked" one iota. :)

It is not always easy to predict when you will get back from delivery. You can get a fairly good idea but then things can happen such as people getting in your way/blocking roads, chatty customers, no one in to accept parcels etc, ice or snow on the ground etc etc.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 16 Feb 2018, 23:16

fed_up_postie wrote:
PackageForYou wrote:Ah - I wasn't aware there is a separate overtime sheet, the sheet we sign in and out from has scheduled times and actual times so I assumed (I know, I know!) that pay was done to the real times. Thank you Creditshampoo. Now I'm wondering whether it's worth bringing up now and causing a fuss (still not had my 6 month sign off yet obvs) or what.

Knowing everything you know now, how would you have handled today if you were in my situation?
Your collegue should know how long the walks should take so he should be able to say roughly what time you would be finishing and therefore if he thinks your not going to complete in time the line manager must be made aware you will not finish in time. It is then down to the manager to decide what action is to be taken. What I will say it DO NOT let them bully you into working over your time. It is NOT a sackable offence if you don't complete just as long as you have told your line manager. Regarding the extra hours you have worked you will have to see your manager in the morning and tell him you went over by xx amount of hours and would like to sign the extended delivery overtime sheet. Make sure you book an extra 40 mins for your break if you did not take it.

I love the bit about signing the extended delivery overtime sheet and even more about booking the 40 minute break you didn't get. Every DO is different - in some offices it will possible to do this and in others it won't. Its very hard to get a handle on this subject. The union should be into tackling it but I get the feeling they don't want to know. You do have a right to tell your DOM before you leave for delivery that you will not have time to complete and to ask them what they want to do about it. It is the DOMs responsibility to get everything delivered. But it is at this point that things can go awry. I wish you luck.

PackageForYou · Post by **PackageForYou** » 17 Feb 2018, 16:37

Hi all. Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the input. I went in and me and the other guy had been given more "absorption" and so apparently we weren't going to finish on time again, so this time I made sure to tell the manager I'll be heading back later on so he could arrange whatever he needed to for my colleague. He basically told me I was slow and asked why it was taking me so long etc, I explained I'm new and still training and after telling me I should finish my rounds he then said for this week he would pay me overtime and pressured me to agree to that. I explained I only want to work my set hours and though he's huffing and puffing I think we're there. I hope this doesn't affect the sign off in 6 months.

Still didn't get to take a break, I think my colleague isn't really helping as he doesn't stop! Meaning the managers will expect that amount of mail deliverable all the time but he's not even taking a break! So I have a challenge there as well now in being firm about taking a break and just letting him get on with it if he wants to take it from the managers.

I can't see why DO's should be different. I know there are old contracts with really good pay so some people are better compensated but we all have meal/rest breaks so we should be utilising these, or at least be able to!

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 17 Feb 2018, 18:46

PackageForYou wrote:he then said for this week he would pay me overtime and pressured me to agree to that.

My manager tried that with me a while ago. I said 'so, next week, no overtime? That's brilliant, I'm glad we are on the same page'.

What do you mean by that he said.. 'you don't want to pay me overtime and I don't want to work overtime, great. Next week - no overtime.'

Funny how he came over on the monday morning to see how things were going.

Post by **kevbo** » 17 Feb 2018, 20:45

PackageForYou wrote:Hi all. Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the input. I went in and me and the other guy had been given more "absorption" and so apparently we weren't going to finish on time again, so this time I made sure to tell the manager I'll be heading back later on so he could arrange whatever he needed to for my colleague. He basically told me I was slow and asked why it was taking me so long etc, I explained I'm new and still training and after telling me I should finish my rounds he then said for this week he would pay me overtime and pressured me to agree to that. I explained I only want to work my set hours and though he's huffing and puffing I think we're there. I hope this doesn't affect the sign off in 6 months.

Still didn't get to take a break, I think my colleague isn't really helping as he doesn't stop! Meaning the managers will expect that amount of mail deliverable all the time but he's not even taking a break! So I have a challenge there as well now in being firm about taking a break and just letting him get on with it if he wants to take it from the managers.

I can't see why DO's should be different. I know there are old contracts with really good pay so some people are better compensated but we all have meal/rest breaks so we should be utilising these, or at least be able to!

Sounds like the bloke your working with is a tool. Anyone who is new to any walk is going to take longer to complete. He knew this and is just trying to pressure you into hurrying. I doubt he even had an appointment to get to. From what you have posted it sounds like you already know what to do i.e take your break, don't be pressured into hurrying. As for your contract speak to your union rep to make sure you get it when you should. I wouldn't worry though if you are doing job properly rarely does anyone get sacked for performance issues in my experience. Also don't worry about offending colleagues like the one you are working with. He doesn't worry about you by the sound of it.

Post by **Lincox** » 18 Feb 2018, 13:48

Well done, stick to your principles and what is good for you within the terms of your contract and you wont go wrong. It is them that have not the guts to face up to their problems but whing and whinge on a daily basis that are the unhappy ones.

crimson king · Post by **crimson king** » 18 Feb 2018, 14:08

Celgar wrote:
visigoth wrote:People seem to be missing my point. That it went from a predicted "it'll be tight" to way, WAY over.

I confess I don't understand "a bit more "walking and reading" than I'd have liked" one iota. :)
It is not always easy to predict when you will get back from delivery. You can get a fairly good idea but then things can happen such as people getting in your way/blocking roads, chatty customers, no one in to accept parcels etc, ice or snow on the ground etc etc.

It's even harder to predict if you and your partner haven't prepped the duty and have no idea what's actually lurking in those red pouches for the day. I think I've got most of the qualities this job requires, but clairvoyance isn't one of them.

visigoth · Post by **visigoth** » 18 Feb 2018, 15:34

Yeah, I get that predicting can be hard. That's why I tend to avoid it. ;)

If only there was a system where prediction wasn't instrumental. Y'know, like coming in of a morning & saying "30 extended yesterday, thanks" whereupon the gaffer would put down said time. Sadly, that would necessitate treating employees like grown-ups.

crimson king · Post by **crimson king** » 18 Feb 2018, 15:54

visigoth wrote:Yeah, I get that predicting can be hard. That's why I tend to avoid it. ;)

If only there was a system where prediction wasn't instrumental. Y'know, like coming in of a morning & saying "30 extended yesterday, thanks" whereupon the gaffer would put down said time. Sadly, that would necessitate treating employees like grown-ups.

Totally agree, it's nuts. In our DO it actually seems like they prefer us to predict, and them to pay for, an hour with the possibility of only going over by thirty minutes than coming in the next day and just booking half an hour. Doing such the next day seems to really piss them off for some reason, so it's easier and a lot less hassle to 'round up' when predicting. Being an honest type, if I accrue and owe them an hour I'll go a day without claiming to even it out, but gawd knows how much they pay out for these over-predictions by those who may be less honest.

South_London_Postie · Post by **South_London_Postie** » 19 Feb 2018, 14:24

No exaggeration I have witnessed this scenario hundreds of times. The ones who stand up for themselves and refuse to do the overtime always come out on top, by either A- the manager never messes about with their wages again B- they never do overtime again, cut off and have a stress free life with all the prep completed for them because the Dom knows he will be left with more work to get rid of come 2pm.

Never have I once seen anyone suffer a negative consequence for standing up for their rights regarding the six month sign off.