knockoffnigel wrote:You should be paid what it actually takes you, otherwise it could be classed as a fraudulent claim, one person in our office recently suspended, and eventually left due to claiming a pre-arranged set rate when it actually took much less.....
Lino at fault too (obviously) !!!!
It's not a fraudulent claim at all. If the hours are agreed before hand that is not fraud. The fraud that catches people out is when they book extended delivery but finish before they have said they have. People saying we should only book how long it takes us. So People can drag their feet and book 3hrs?
Just saying what happened recently .....Long term agreement between lino and a chosen few, "excessive" claim picked up on by DOM, staff member suspended, limo disappears on long term sick with stress!!!
Just claim for what you actually work would be my advice, IMO if your overtime takes an hour, claim an hour, you haven't earned anymore than that, I reckon nothing to these back-handed deals that are going on all the time just to cover the cracks!!
Every office needs serious auditing of resource management and overtime and fuel usage.
We have our manager given IPS overtime to the same person everyday, even on quiet Tuesdays... And then you see manager running around prepping at times or making some double prepping when the manager's pet walks out more than 1 hours before others. And back before 12 everyday and takes the van home everyday including weekends - with his pet in the van even during delivery.
Agreed time is fine on extra delivery but it should be reasonable and people regularly doing OT because they gave easier rounds is not good management and it is Spanish practice - different from a runner, imo
Chris,
But "serious auditing of resource management and overtime and fuel usage" costs money that would otherwise go to the shareholders so it's not going to happen. .
westham000 wrote:If we don't vote yes for industrial action, and the Royal Mall get their way.
It will be NO hours!
How is that? Overtime is voluntary!
In fact, if we do the job properly, overtime rate will likely increase as not many people will do overtime especially with later starts.
If your office is not that productive, that is another matter. Workloads should become more uniform and earlyy finishers should go back out - that will reach them!
My office tends to pay 1 hour for a row but all rows are not the same; so posties can negotiate and it also depends on how desperate. Ours is too long, by the way, but it was spoiled by a tight manager and minions that run around and try to make themselves indispensable.
I think he means there will be no hours because one of the new practices the RM management want to bring in is walk ownership. Where say for instance a group of 6 walks is clustered together, those 6 duty holders are responsible for getting them cleared everyday. If for example someone goes sick, the other 5 are responsible for clearing the extra walk with no o/t. The idea being this replaces absorption, o/t, etc.
CWU are rejecting it outright obviously. I mean you could find yourself with 3 people out sick or on holiday and have to clear 6 walks between the three of you that are left potentially having to go hours over without any extra pay, it's a really crap idea.
Lounge Lizard wrote:Chris,
But "serious auditing of resource management and overtime and fuel usage" costs money that would otherwise go to the shareholders so it's not going to happen. .
Is it not funny how some of us keep talking about shareholders as if we are not almost all shareholders of RM. And I shall continue to be because the dividends are amongst some of the best around - even better than savings or pension investments.
Auditing will make managers sit up and shape up and RM will end up saving money in the long run - it is coming. Managers are now responsible financially for their units and many LM will go; increasing pressure on the rubbish, wasteful and unfair managers around.
Lounge Lizard wrote:Chris,
But "serious auditing of resource management and overtime and fuel usage" costs money that would otherwise go to the shareholders so it's not going to happen. .
Is it not funny how some of us keep talking about shareholders as if we are not almost all shareholders of RM. And I shall continue to be because the dividends are amongst some of the best around - even better than savings or pension investments.
Auditing will make managers sit up and shape up and RM will end up saving money in the long run - it is coming. Managers are now responsible financially for their units and many LM will go; increasing pressure on the rubbish, wasteful and unfair managers around.
Chris,
By "shareholders" I am referring to those whose main interest in Royal Mail is the, possibly quite substantial, shareholding that they have in the company.
I am first and foremost an "employee" of Royal Mail. That I own a few shares that the company chose to give me is of little, if any, consequence to me.
I have had plenty of experience of auditing elsewhere and as often as not the auditors only get to see what the managers want them to see so I very much doubt, if it happens, it would "end up saving money in the long run".
number one wrote:Just wondering how much people get to deliver an extra row on overtime. I believe this varies massively from different delivery offices. Some pay 1:15hr and other 2hrs. I'm just trying to get an average.
My DO normally work on the basis of negotiation with the DOM. Having said that I don't believe the guys doing it take the piss. They normally claim about the length of time it takes.
I use the Overrunning procedure on a regular basis and when "Asking the DOM what he wants to do about me finishing on time".... (which usually boils down to me leaving about 45 mins worth)... he'll pay that time, plus traveling (extra 20 mins). If he's lucky he'll get the guy on the next door duty to cover it, then he doesn't pay traveling.
Like all Wage Slaves, he had two crosses to bear: The people he worked for and the people he worked with! (Stephen Vizinczey.)
Reminds me of the Old Days (still on bikes) when they used to ask everyone to help deliver a duty that someone might have gone sick on. Everyone would rush round to the frame and try and grab an easy section. I remember one of the "Old Mafia" would always shout, "Make sure you leave the Closes for the van drivers". Don't know why he thought it'd be easier for a bike to ride around some long awkward bit?
Needless to say there was often much pushing & shoving, accompanied by much effing & jeffing! Oh how we used to have fun in Royal Mail.
Like all Wage Slaves, he had two crosses to bear: The people he worked for and the people he worked with! (Stephen Vizinczey.)
Have a look at this case online, dismissed for claiming hours not worked. Admittedly this case goes a lot further than something agreed with your manager, but it shows what senior investigating managers think of claiming overtime for hours not worked. Your manager cannot agree to pay you more hours than is worked and if he is I doubt very much his bosses know higher up the ladder.
Only claim for what you actually work. Keep yourself right !!!
What isn't fair is that if you don't cut off your last row and do it as O/T you get how long it takes, but if you do a row O/T on another round you get 1.50 hours O/T
Some rows only have 5 columns, others have as many as 8. So 'per row' doesn't really apply for us.
How about you book what it takes? What a mad modern principle!
Either they pay you the time it takes or they choose to fail the mail. Not a hard decision surely.
I wish some managers would stop cheating the budget if they're actually offering time and a half for overtime nowadays. It means these posties are still living in the olden days it seems.
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