Customer saying they haven't received Tracked I delivered

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 09 May 2017, 18:23

clashcityrocker wrote:
Darren Bent wrote:Did you scan it and it will be on PDA history with GPS. it should be enough proof you have delivered it.
If however he has left it in an unsecured porch he has wilfully breached the security of the mail.
A breach of the mail integrity is a sackable offence.
I think it is clearly stated in the guidelines that an unsecured porch is not a safe place.
If you can open the door to put the packet in, then anyone can open the door to take it back out.

The question is secure if it goes through a standard letter box porch or otherwise it is the home owners responsibility to secure their own property and as such I cannot be an agent of said home owner to ensure their property is safe. I don't go around checking doors for customers like some common thief does I neither have the time or inclination to do so!

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 09 May 2017, 18:47

It's no less secure than leaving it with a neighbour, what if the neighbour denies having taken it in. It's still your word against theirs ,I have heard of it several times ,and you will be subject to the conversation,as they say. . I will not leave anything with a neighbour,no matter what,it's fraught with problems and not worth the hassle. Royal Mail standard or not, if it's down to me ,then if they're not in ,back it goes.

Post by **Lounge Lizard** » 09 May 2017, 19:04

rubberbond wrote:It's no less secure than leaving it with a neighbour, what if the neighbour denies having taken it in. It's still your word against there's ,I have heard of it several times ,and you will be subject to the conversation,as they say. . I will not leave anything with a neighbour,no matter what,it's fraught with problems and not worth the hassle. Royal Mail standard or not, if it's down to me ,then if they're not in ,back it goes.

Yes, "It's no less secure than leaving it with a neighbour" but the difference is that our employer tells us to leave it with a neighbour and tells us an unsecured porch is a wilful breach of the security of the mail.

Captain Scarlet · Post by **Captain Scarlet** » 09 May 2017, 19:12

Been a lot of denial of receipt in our office, customers are milking it and we are getting shafted. I always leave a card saying who I have left it with but only for certain areas on my delivery. If the customer isn't in and safe place doesn't look too safe then it's safely back to my van

Supermac0151 · Post by **Supermac0151** » 09 May 2017, 19:15

This is straightforward. If it's got safe place instructions (i.e. Leave it in porch) then do as instructed, it is what the customer asked for after all!! If not, then obviously always 739 it. A lot of customers on my rounds are really decent but at least once a week in our office a customer is always trying it on, it's sickening when a person just doing their job for their family could lose their job and earnings so the customer can get a bit of compensation. You'll be ok I think.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 09 May 2017, 19:25

But why do the managers believe it all and act on it because they are not managers anymore they are the mouthpiece of dictators from above and dare not go against those above them for the ultimate sanction is being made back to postman/woman! They will have no discretion and no input every decision is made before interview at any case if they want rid of you they will by foul means or corruption with all the collusion that goes with it!

telithowitis · Post by **telithowitis** » 09 May 2017, 19:30

This I see interesting for me.
Firstly being fairly new never had any training or was ever given anything to read about this at work. The 1 days training before I went to the DO was just about RM and its competitors
No practical trading on using PDA or "rules" of delivery at all, except told not to hand it over in street.
Posties I have worked with tell me that the "letterbox" is the point of delivery.
So if the letterbox is on the porch door that's fine??
Perhaps someone could post the "rules" about delivery seeing as RM management don't feel it's necessary to tell you when you join!!!
Are you saying that if a porch has a letter box on the outside, and is insecure, but nothing on the internal door I should bring the letters back as well as there not secure?
Also finding in warm weather a lot of front doors open can I put the post on the mat or knock and hand it over/return it!!!
Best take another couple of packet sacks out tomorrow for everything I will be bringing back!!!!

Momo90210 · Post by **Momo90210** » 09 May 2017, 19:44

So lets get this straight...we are told we have to leave tracked items with neighbours, in the safeplace etc but when the customer denies that they have received it we face getting conducted? Yet if we put a p739 card through we also get told we'll face conduct for not getting rid of it? You couldn't make it up

Jambomatt1874 · Post by **Jambomatt1874** » 09 May 2017, 19:51

We were told to ignore all safe place instructions on packets as we would be taking down conduct if anything goes missing. I always leave a shut notice and take everything back to office now

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 09 May 2017, 19:57

telithowitis wrote:This I see interesting for me.
Firstly being fairly new never had any training or was ever given anything to read about this at work. The 1 days training before I went to the DO was just about RM and its competitors
No practical trading on using PDA or "rules" of delivery at all, except told not to hand it over in street.
Posties I have worked with tell me that the "letterbox" is the point of delivery.
So if the letterbox is on the porch door that's fine??
Perhaps someone could post the "rules" about delivery seeing as RM management don't feel it's necessary to tell you when you join!!!
Are you saying that if a porch has a letter box on the outside, and is insecure, but nothing on the internal door I should bring the letters back as well as there not secure?
Also finding in warm weather a lot of front doors open can I put the post on the mat or knock and hand it over/return it!!!
Best take another couple of packet sacks out tomorrow for everything I will be bringing back!!!!

Well lots of points but the letter box is right and porch OK if it goes through letterbox hand it over in the street NO. As for front doors being open take care could be dogs but just throw it inside as far as you can and look for dogs when you leave. Letter boxes on the outside are up to the home owners to make sure they are secure unless obvious non containment box flap open even then could be has not been closed properly which you could do yourself if it saves you time!

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 09 May 2017, 20:08

Momo90210 wrote:So lets get this straight...we are told we have to leave tracked items with neighbours, in the safeplace etc but when the customer denies that they have received it we face getting conducted? Yet if we put a p739 card through we also get told we'll face conduct for not getting rid of it? You couldn't make it up

this isnt about neighbours, its about leaving an item in a unsecure location without that being an agreed location in writing or on the "safeplace" location on the tracked packet. Sorry to say but it IS postmans fault, unless you have been told directly by managers to leave things unsecure (ive heard that sometimes this is the case)

Ill also add, this is about cutting corners, and its always the same, cutting corners to get things done is great and all, but it ALWAYS will go wrong in the end, you say you have been 2 years doing this kind of thing no problems, but i think youre luck has ran out. Please do the job properly !! And the customer may or may not be "trying it on", but you have no way to tell either way unfortunately as you have opened yourself up for something like this.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 09 May 2017, 20:09

peshwaarinaan, did the packet have a safeplace instruction to leave it in the porch, you have not answered this yet!
If it did then you could be ok, if it didn't then you are in trouble.

Acca Dacca · Post by **Acca Dacca** » 09 May 2017, 20:32

clashcityrocker wrote:
Darren Bent wrote:Did you scan it and it will be on PDA history with GPS. it should be enough proof you have delivered it.
If however he has left it in an unsecured porch he has wilfully breached the security of the mail.
A breach of the mail integrity is a sackable offence.
I think it is clearly stated in the guidelines that an unsecured porch is not a safe place.
If you can open the door to put the packet in, then anyone can open the door to take it back out.

Are parcels treated same as mail though?

USO wise

scoobydo79 · Post by **scoobydo79** » 09 May 2017, 20:47

Weve had a spate of these lately. is it a new scam by dishonest customers .

elteleltel · Post by **elteleltel** » 09 May 2017, 21:07

In many postboxes the mail can be retrieved by anyone especially the American style ones .
Constantly being told your 2d barcode scanner percentages puts pressure on us .
Does the porch have a letterbox ,if so if the porch is open none of the mail is secure