Snails

[tommyrep]

KTB
The choice of thread name worries me ever so slightly for a start.
There are many reasons for people being runners.
They are usually newbies,(not always) young impressionable (pat on back sorts) or trying to make an impression, ( a good lad that one !)
I do not suggest you are trying to dob on a P&L partner, who is FT and has longer service and MAY be older/wiser and less fit than you.
The other side of the argument MAY be, you tend to go in early in an attempt to finish quicker ? - pat on back,good lad etc.
Your P&L partner may with old timer knowledge know if you are in early, he will obviously knows he will get a decent hand.
If the P&L partner IS chatting and drinking coffee rather than prepping the duties, the Lino should be onto it, they have spies aplenty on indoor prepping willing to dob if your not!
Maybe the partner is doing all he needs to do and you may be the problem and not the snail.
Delivering mail is only a job, not a contest with a gold medal for being the best in the office.
Far too many delivery staff try to do the management dirty work for them. So, step back and look at YOUR post again.
Snails or lazy postmen do need to be monitored only to a point ! not to be run down by colleagues on performance. There are plenty well paid RM managers ( and you refer to snails !!!), let them do that work.
Do what YOU need to do within contracted hours and then go home, simple! Your job is done then.

[postslippete]

I think I might become a snail


Work so slow both indoors and outdoors so that nobody will ever want to work with me


And then I might end up doing the duty on my own. Sorted!

[Pompey Boy]

That sounds like the ideal way to be bullied by management

[DB1100]

KTB
The choice of thread name worries me ever so slightly for a start.
There are many reasons for people being runners.
They are usually newbies,(not always) young impressionable (pat on back sorts) or trying to make an impression, ( a good lad that one !)
I do not suggest you are trying to dob on a P&L partner, who is FT and has longer service and MAY be older/wiser and less fit than you.
The other side of the argument MAY be, you tend to go in early in an attempt to finish quicker ? - pat on back,good lad etc.
Your P&L partner may with old timer knowledge know if you are in early, he will obviously knows he will get a decent hand.
If the P&L partner IS chatting and drinking coffee rather than prepping the duties, the Lino should be onto it, they have spies aplenty on indoor prepping willing to dob if your not!
Maybe the partner is doing all he needs to do and you may be the problem and not the snail.
Delivering mail is only a job, not a contest with a gold medal for being the best in the office.
Far too many delivery staff try to do the management dirty work for them. So, step back and look at YOUR post again.
Snails or lazy postmen do need to be monitored only to a point ! not to be run down by colleagues on performance. There are plenty well paid RM managers ( and you refer to snails !!!), let them do that work.
Do what YOU need to do within contracted hours and then go home, simple! Your job is done then.

,one of the best post's I've read on here for a long time.

[DGH]

So just so that I'm clear . . .

using the terms 'runners' and 'spies' is fine but 'snails', by contrast, is worrying?

The fact is none of us should be using those terms, it's not helpful.

It is a fact that some people do more work than they should, however it's also a fact that others do as little as they possibly can. There are various motives for both types. Neither sort actually help improve the situation (and I fully agree that poor line management is the root cause of the toleration of both sorts of behaviour).

While those who do more work than they need to do undermine the job in one way, those who do as little as they can get away with are also undermining it as much, only in a different way. Just as some rush to gain half an hour and finish early, others take far more than their allowed breaks. Neither is really acceptable, is it?

[tommyrep]

[quote="DGH"]So just so that I'm clear . . .
DGH
Using a term as "snails" to describe a fellow work colleague does not compare in my opinion.
Describing someone who physically runs on duty, compared to a person who WALKS ? I think the description fits well. It is also a term often used in posts to describe people who run around make the job appear to be a LOT easier than it really is, especially If the snail is doing the job properly and using the right methods.
Describing people as "spies", well ! Some people call them brown noses on this forum. Anyone who carries stories back to managers behind any persons back- without their knowledge- can be described fairly as a spy, in my opinion. Do you not know of ANY fellow workers who crawl in with managers ? People who laugh n gaff in the doms office- maybe have a coffee and a ciggie or two ? People who carry stories back, to the detriment of others ? Many possible reasons for doing that, like favours maybe ?, more OT. Or they just might be good guys that have the business at heart !!!!
Not helpful using those terms ? Are you saying I am being unfair on people who only cause a lot of grief to all delivery staff by THEIR unhelpful actions. You feel sorry for the poor souls, I don't. Purposely lazy people deserve investigation. Helping to discredit people doing the job properly is wrong.
Spies, ? They could also be called vermin, they are often weak people, deflecting attention from their own failings.
tommyrep

[DGH]

It's a lesser version of the same thing. 'Spies' is probably worse in my view. I can't see that just chucking labels that are going to get people's backs up is helping anyone to be honest. Hence I agree, 'snails' is wrong. But so is 'vermin' and 'spies' and 'runners' (because the latter is always used pejoratively).

Anyway, the central thrust is that there are both people who cut corners to leave early and people who take more break than they are entitled to (and so cheat their fellows just as much). Both things are an issue.

I can think of a few dozen folk in my office who cut corners and/or come in early in order to leave early.
I can think of nearly as many who actively shirk by lying about their capability to absorb lapsing and/or taking extra breaks above their allotted. Some of these will also deliberately spin out their loops or waste time by other means.

Few of them will 'tell tales'. In general, and surprisingly, the tale-tellers are in the latter group.

Neither is acceptable, is it?

[Kick the Bucket]

KTB
The choice of thread name worries me ever so slightly for a start.
There are many reasons for people being runners.
They are usually newbies,(not always) young impressionable (pat on back sorts) or trying to make an impression, ( a good lad that one !)
I do not suggest you are trying to dob on a P&L partner, who is FT and has longer service and MAY be older/wiser and less fit than you.
The other side of the argument MAY be, you tend to go in early in an attempt to finish quicker ? - pat on back,good lad etc.
Your P&L partner may with old timer knowledge know if you are in early, he will obviously knows he will get a decent hand.
If the P&L partner IS chatting and drinking coffee rather than prepping the duties, the Lino should be onto it, they have spies aplenty on indoor prepping willing to dob if your not!
Maybe the partner is doing all he needs to do and you may be the problem and not the snail.
Delivering mail is only a job, not a contest with a gold medal for being the best in the office.
Far too many delivery staff try to do the management dirty work for them. So, step back and look at YOUR post again.
Snails or lazy postmen do need to be monitored only to a point ! not to be run down by colleagues on performance. There are plenty well paid RM managers ( and you refer to snails !!!), let them do that work.
Do what YOU need to do within contracted hours and then go home, simple! Your job is done then.

While I understand your statement, I feel you have misunderstood me and will explain further. In my posts I have expressed that I do not want to "dob" my partner in! I don't understand why you are jumping on my back stating I am an issue? I use the correct delivery method be that trolley or small pouch bag. I do not rush on delivery. 

My only issue with my current partner is that they do not mind going over their contractual hours to claim overtime, which is fine. The issue comes however that I do not want to go over my contractual hours on a daily basis. This causes issues for me when I am then having to argue with a manager who obviously does not want me to leave any work behind. This is extremely stressful and undue. I am also constantly badgered into asking why on my partners day off, I can complete. Adding to an already stressful situation.

It would be better, Tommyrep, if you did not jump to conclusions that I am a "runner" or "grass" as I am not. It is up to my partner for how they work and I have not told them to speed up once. Removing myself from my delivery surely points out the fact that I would be willing to go to great lengths not to get my partner into trouble?

[tommyrep]

KTB
I never said you were a runner ! I said many newbies ARE - and they are often put under pressure by colleagues and management.
I never said you were a grass either ! and I did say that, if you care to re-read what I said, I did not jump to conclusions at all.
Your post was on a topic that deserves to be heard.
My observations were an attempt at trying to explain some of what could be construed as reasons.
Do you or have you never seen colleagues under pressure to, come in early ? Run on delivery ? Miss meal breaks ?
I do, daily.! If you do not do any of those and use the proper methods ? Well fair enough,I am not taking issue with you in the slightest. Any outside observer would ask similar questions of YOUR actions before agreeing to your description of people being "snails" . You do make a valid point about them happily doing OT, while you do not. The only option you have is, to work your contracted hours. I apologise if you are offended, not my intention really.

[tommyrep]

It's a lesser version of the same thing. 'Spies' is probably worse in my view. I can't see that just chucking labels that are going to get people's backs up is helping anyone to be honest. Hence I agree, 'snails' is wrong. But so is 'vermin' and 'spies' and 'runners' (because the latter is always used pejoratively).

Anyway, the central thrust is that there are both people who cut corners to leave early and people who take more break than they are entitled to (and so cheat their fellows just as much). Both things are an issue.

I can think of a few dozen folk in my office who cut corners and/or come in early in order to leave early.
I can think of nearly as many who actively shirk by lying about their capability to absorb lapsing and/or taking extra breaks above their allotted. Some of these will also deliberately spin out their loops or waste time by other means.

Few of them will 'tell tales'. In general, and surprisingly, the tale-tellers are in the latter group.

Neither is acceptable, is it?

Any person prepared to do the underhand dirty work for the many RM managers I have encountered, cannot complain about being labeled a spy. Oh, it seems telling tales is not so serious in your opinion. If you were a manager, or maybe it is past MI5 training, I could easily understand your view on that. You conveniently raise the subject of shirkers lying about lapsing capability and spinning out loops to incur docket. Any DOM would agree with your statement- obviously. There is one simple answer to that, proper precise testing of all duties, sticking to an agreed fair workload and as per a 318. Fairer revisions.
Does any DOM you have encountered, EVER try and stop early starters. Enforce meal breaks. Enforce mandatory methods??.
Human nature will always try and get a lesser work load, RManagers are no acception. Compare that to The DOMs who rigidly tell an OPG he. HAS time to absorb, that is also cheating and bullying on an every day basis,on ALL staff.
Interestingly, in my 15 years of working in delivery I have NEVER encountered any OPG taking MORE break time than entitled. Quiet the opposite. All my colleagues endeavour to work hard and complete every day, hence corner cutting.
So the central thrust is really this, does a manager wear a blindfold- or spend all prep time in his office drinking coffee and chatting on a phone -and never notice a shirker doing prep work ? It is a red herring In my opinion
Both are an issue as you state, but the pendulum has swung too far in RM favour. Turning workers against workers is well below the belt to achieve targets. Yes Vermin is a good description.

[Kick the Bucket]

KTB
I never said you were a runner ! I said many newbies ARE - and they are often put under pressure by colleagues and management.
I never said you were a grass either ! and I did say that, if you care to re-read what I said, I did not jump to conclusions at all.
Your post was on a topic that deserves to be heard.
My observations were an attempt at trying to explain some of what could be construed as reasons.
Do you or have you never seen colleagues under pressure to, come in early ? Run on delivery ? Miss meal breaks ?
I do, daily.! If you do not do any of those and use the proper methods ? Well fair enough,I am not taking issue with you in the slightest. Any outside observer would ask similar questions of YOUR actions before agreeing to your description of people being "snails" . You do make a valid point about them happily doing OT, while you do not. The only option you have is, to work your contracted hours. I apologise if you are offended, not my intention really.

While I do attempt to work my contractual hours this as mentioned leads to the stress of an argument with my delightful DOM. Bring on tomorrow I say!

[Pompey Boy]

So just so that I'm clear . . .

using the terms 'runners' and 'spies' is fine but 'snails', by contrast, is worrying?

The fact is none of us should be using those terms, it's not helpful.

It is a fact that some people do more work than they should, however it's also a fact that others do as little as they possibly can. There are various motives for both types. Neither sort actually help improve the situation (and I fully agree that poor line management is the root cause of the toleration of both sorts of behaviour).

While those who do more work than they need to do undermine the job in one way, those who do as little as they can get away with are also undermining it as much, only in a different way. Just as some rush to gain half an hour and finish early, others take far more than their allowed breaks. Neither is really acceptable, is it?

Friend

Royal Mail has created a them and us system. So if you go running to a guvnor about another postie you are a spy, little s**t or whatever in my opinion. Also the runners are sh***s too and don't do us any good in terms of service to the public. Snails is a bad term for older people who simply cannot cope with the physical demands of RM

[Kick the Bucket]

So just so that I'm clear . . .

using the terms 'runners' and 'spies' is fine but 'snails', by contrast, is worrying?

The fact is none of us should be using those terms, it's not helpful.

It is a fact that some people do more work than they should, however it's also a fact that others do as little as they possibly can. There are various motives for both types. Neither sort actually help improve the situation (and I fully agree that poor line management is the root cause of the toleration of both sorts of behaviour).

While those who do more work than they need to do undermine the job in one way, those who do as little as they can get away with are also undermining it as much, only in a different way. Just as some rush to gain half an hour and finish early, others take far more than their allowed breaks. Neither is really acceptable, is it?

Friend

Royal Mail has created a them and us system. So if you go running to a guvnor about another postie you are a spy, little s**t or whatever in my opinion. Also the runners are sh***s too and don't do us any good in terms of service to the public. Snails is a bad term for older people who simply cannot cope with the physical demands of RM

That's lovely. But I never mentioned the age of my partner or physical abilith.