Job and Finish needs to go

Stammerking · Post by **Stammerking** » 31 Jan 2017, 16:16

The new PDAS have loads of info on them for Royal Mail to track,they know where you are within a 5 metre range so the people taking the piss are being recorded

bettyflo16 · Post by **bettyflo16** » 31 Jan 2017, 16:20

for what reason ? surely a better idea would be the equalisation of duties and protecting those who only want to work their hours.[/quote]

I agree. There is enough technology about to organise and equalise duties, and protect those who want to work their hours whether they be more or less. Also efficiency is not only about speed. I've seen quite a few questionable practices from some who pride themselves on being the first back.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 31 Jan 2017, 16:26

Be careful what you wish for....
The only way to "equalise" duties and remove job and finish is with outdoor performance tools, standards and management coupled with a form of banking hours.

Who knows whether you would fall outside or inside the definition of acceptable or whether that definition might change year on year in order to drive savings. It isn't terrible at the moment, runners run and good luck to them, it's not for me but then the alternative is much worse in my opinion.

WOBBLY · Post by **WOBBLY** » 31 Jan 2017, 16:35

Postie45 wrote:
WOBBLY wrote:
Postie45 wrote:
WOBBLY wrote:
Postie45 wrote:i think RM realise that there would likely be less efficency if they took job and finish away, too many people would just "do the job properly". Turning from what is now early finishes into cutoffs.
Which is why the union should be pushing for it!

Bring on electronic clocking on/off I say! I work all my hours so have absolutely no issue with it!
for what reason ? surely a better idea would be the equalisation of duties and protecting those who only want to work their hours.
To equalise everybody's time, equalising duties is impossible until this is done!! It would help stop people coming in early and working for free and as such will highlight those duties that are to big (or too small)
as mentioned earlier, people will just take longer if they know they will be given extra work if they return early, you wont highlight and equalise workload this way. In theory yes, in practise no.

Most will just work at the minimum pace, like they're suppose to. Management would be quick enough to spot workers taking the pee. It will stop the runners running and the early starters from starting early!

(I've come from an office that worked their hours and they do much less absorption/extra work than my current office - that is full of runners)

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 31 Jan 2017, 16:54

bensonhedge wrote:
97gaz wrote:There is no job and finish in Royal Mail. It went years ago. We are expected to work every hour that we are paid for.
That's why I've been home since half 12 today then

Late were you?
Anyway, further to the original post,about people going over and not getting paid,why do it? It would only happen to me and a lot of colleagues only the once,then it's cut off time, you cannot be forced to work over your time,much less not get paid for it.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 31 Jan 2017, 16:55

"Management would be quick enough to spot workers taking the pee."

how ? it seems they cant even measure it with people going home early, so why would it change with everyone finishing on time. If anything it would be harder to measure peoples work speed.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 31 Jan 2017, 16:58

fishtank wrote:Be careful what you wish for....
The only way to "equalise" duties and remove job and finish is with outdoor performance tools, standards and management coupled with a form of banking hours.

Who knows whether you would fall outside or inside the definition of acceptable or whether that definition might change year on year in order to drive savings. It isn't terrible at the moment, runners run and good luck to them, it's not for me but then the alternative is much worse in my opinion.

thats where im at now, i used to be in the make everyone work til time, but im past trying to fix RM. So long as im able to finish within my time im not going to worry about what time others finish. And if i couidnt finish on time then id cut off, im not going to be bullied into working for free.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 31 Jan 2017, 17:02

WOBBLY wrote:
Postie45 wrote:
for what reason ? surely a better idea would be the equalisation of duties and protecting those who only want to work their hours.
To equalise everybody's time, equalising duties is impossible until this is done!! It would help stop people coming in early and working for free and as such will highlight those duties that are to big (or too small)

Its coming. Royal Mails wet dream is for posties not to have specific duties, but for the computer and manager in combination decide which section of his responsibility you should be doing, and the computer decides how much work you get to take you to your time.

Even then it won't work as people work at different speeds because of their age, gender (yes men and women walk differently), fitness and any EA issues that they may have. The only way you will get everyone to have exactly the same size "duty" and everyone to work to their time is another old favourite of RM, the starburst method. Where instead of 1 or 2 going out in a van, they use a bus system, "A-Team" style where 5 - 6 of you go to one central point and starburst that area, then move on to the next. Even then J&F will still exist as one Team will always be quicker/slower than the other.

You can never get a duty or system that is so precise and accurate that all posties will work at the same rate and at the same level, because humans are such imprecise creatures.

BeamishStout · Post by **BeamishStout** » 31 Jan 2017, 17:24

I agree that job and finish that needs 'clarifying' but also 'return to office' needs clarifying after delivery. Recently ALL employees (Both persons in P&L deliveries) at our LDO have been instructed to return to depot after finishing delivery supposedly due to 'H&S' concerns by management. Many do but some still don't. Doesn't bother me per se (or my P&L partner). Just means that we both book in O/T for small amounts instead of just one of us (as used to happen).

Anyone else asked to fill in a 'skills matrix' recently i.e which duties you can deliver/prep? Is this the precursor to not having a designated duty?

Another point mentioned - How can management monitor posties going home early when most of them Foxtrot Oscar before we get back? Invariably just 1 (out of 4/5 at start of shift) left to monitor emergencies!

Jpro747 · Post by **Jpro747** » 31 Jan 2017, 18:16

Stammerking wrote:The new PDAS have loads of info on them for Royal Mail to track,they know where you are within a 5 metre range so the people taking the piss are being recorded

Yes and they should be able to see which rounds are too big and whether cutting off or paying overtime is justified.

Grinder64 · Post by **Grinder64** » 31 Jan 2017, 18:28

It's not the issue of 'job & finish' that necessarily needs addressing, rather the imbalance of mail volumes on specific days. No coincidence that most replies to this posting are aired after a Tuesday...

Post by **97gaz** » 31 Jan 2017, 18:40

Chelseablue · Post by **Chelseablue** » 31 Jan 2017, 19:38

Weve 5 or 6 runners in our place who are destroying duties , complete thick headed idiots . Everyones peed off with them , all the bosses say is , i know , i know . Its a huge health and safety issue esp way they are driving , dont get me started on no team effort when out .

DocketLefty · Post by **DocketLefty** » 31 Jan 2017, 19:43

If they still had job and knock OFFICIALLY, then every office would be clear everyday.

Chelseablue · Post by **Chelseablue** » 31 Jan 2017, 19:47

It stimes looks like were heading into amazon and sports direct territory with all the garbage that comes out on a daily occurance