Long weekend for reserves question

[P739]

So the burning question is the Union going to do anything about this UNFAIR PROCEDURE or are they just going say feck you because you are in the minority ? I think I already know my answer.. Have a good New Year and enjoy your long weekends off because after 15 years service i'm still waiting for mine thanks a bunch my fellow workers

[steve1873]

I don't recall any part of any national agreement singling out Reserves to be treated any less favourably than any other postal workers, irrespective of the attendance patterns used. If anyone can point me in that direction I will gladly take the argument to HQ.

so are reserves entitled to the same number as long weekends as everyone else?

Well no, since nobody is actually entitled to the long weekend off, it is simply the result of a rotating day off. Being a reserve, it is not likely (not saying impossible) to have a rotating day off, therefore they would have to be lucky to get a Saturday-Monday in consecutive weeks.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I don't recall any part of any national agreement singling out Reserves to be treated any less favourably than any other postal workers, irrespective of the attendance patterns used. If anyone can point me in that direction I will gladly take the argument to HQ.

so are reserves entitled to the same number as long weekends as everyone else?

Well no, since nobody is actually entitled to the long weekend off, it is simply the result of a rotating day off. Being a reserve, it is not likely (not saying impossible) to have a rotating day off, therefore they would have to be lucky to get a Saturday-Monday in consecutive weeks.

If you read my previous post you would see I already know the answer and was trying to get ahebban to point out where reserves are treated favourably as he says he would take it up with hq if they were treated less favourably, he has been quiet on the point since

[steve1873]

I don't recall any part of any national agreement singling out Reserves to be treated any less favourably than any other postal workers, irrespective of the attendance patterns used. If anyone can point me in that direction I will gladly take the argument to HQ.

so are reserves entitled to the same number as long weekends as everyone else?

Well no, since nobody is actually entitled to the long weekend off, it is simply the result of a rotating day off. Being a reserve, it is not likely (not saying impossible) to have a rotating day off, therefore they would have to be lucky to get a Saturday-Monday in consecutive weeks.

If you read my previous post you would see I already know the answer and was trying to get ahebban to point out where reserves are treated favourably as he says he would take it up with hq if they were treated less favourably, he has been quiet on the point since

Ah apologies mate.

[P739]

Is anybody in the Union going to take up this fight on behalf of the reserves because it clearly is not working or fare It beggars belief that this aloud to happen up and down the Country...So I would grateful if somebody from the Union would get back to me on the issue

[fishtank]

The reality is you have to fight anything at an office level first, including this.

If you're in an office full of selfish bastards union membership is little more than an insurance policy in case the sky falls in and not a very good insurance policy either.

[Dorset Plodder]

Too true FT. And I'd say the vast amounts of DOs fall into that category. If there's one thing that would put me off being a Union Rep is having to listen to those self same selfish bastards bending my ear about any little thing that effects THEM and THEIR DUTY, while at the same time sticking two fingers up to their colleagues and any agreed procedures , which don't suit them!

[P739]

Too true FT. And I'd say the vast amounts of DOs fall into that category. If there's one thing that would put me off being a Union Rep is having to listen to those self same selfish bastards bending my ear about any little thing that effects THEM and THEIR DUTY, while at the same time sticking two fingers up to their colleagues and any agreed procedures , which don't suit them!

there in lies the problem feck you jack I'm alright

[Dorset Plodder]

I don't know what the solution is P739.......... I often try the softly softly approach. Talking to Newbies (or sometimes Oldies!) and just try and explain about "Working Properly", and how in the Long Run it will help them, reduce their workload and perhaps give someone else a job in our DO (when they have to recruit due to Posties Cutting Off, Refusing Lapsing & Insisting over sized duties are tested). Some times it works but a lot of the time you get the impression they don't want to listen. They're stuck in their groove, working the same old way.

Occasionally I may end up using the NOT so Softly approach........ and tell some Dickhead to just Piss Off and stop whinging about how hard done by they are. Because they're a runner who doesn't use the correct delivery methods, cuts corners, comes in early, works for free and then moans about some minor problem ...like someone nicking Their parking space in the yard...which means they have to walk further FFS!

No idea how to improve the attitude of these people. Some DOs just seem to have more than their fair share of Selfish Bastards with no backbone ! Other DOs seem very Militant (for want of a better word) and TBH they seem to get a better deal and are less effected by Management Bullying. Perhaps the problem lays with Experienced Posties who have never been out of their comfort zones, never working on another duty let alone another office. They take the attitude of a sub-contractor and have such tunnel vision that they're totally unaware of what's going on outside their own little world!

[meercat]

I don't recall any part of any national agreement singling out Reserves to be treated any less favourably than any other postal workers, irrespective of the attendance patterns used. If anyone can point me in that direction I will gladly take the argument to HQ.

so are reserves entitled to the same number as long weekends as everyone else?

The whole idea about Reserves is that they work the busiest days. No-one has to apply for a job working every Sat.

However if you started the job with occasional Sats off it's arguably unfair if you were later forced into no Sats off when the rest of the workforce wasn't. Employment law says everyone should be treated the same so unfavorable attendance days imposed should be done so across the board or not at all.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I don't recall any part of any national agreement singling out Reserves to be treated any less favourably than any other postal workers, irrespective of the attendance patterns used. If anyone can point me in that direction I will gladly take the argument to HQ.

so are reserves entitled to the same number as long weekends as everyone else?

The whole idea about Reserves is that they work the busiest days. No-one has to apply for a job working every Sat.

However if you started the job with occasional Sats off it's arguably unfair if you were later forced into no Sats off when the rest of the workforce wasn't. Employment law says everyone should be treated the same so unfavorable attendance days imposed should be done so across the board or not at all.

Where exactly in employment law does it state everyone should be treated the same? as if that was the case everyone should also be on the same amount of hours as some being on pt and some on ft would be unfair, the equality act and part time worker regulations give some protections to people covered by them but there is no where in employment law that says everyone should be treated the same

[P739]

I don't know what the solution is P739.......... I often try the softly softly approach. Talking to Newbies (or sometimes Oldies!) and just try and explain about "Working Properly", and how in the Long Run it will help them, reduce their workload and perhaps give someone else a job in our DO (when they have to recruit due to Posties Cutting Off, Refusing Lapsing & Insisting over sized duties are tested). Some times it works but a lot of the time you get the impression they don't want to listen. They're stuck in their groove, working the same old way.

Occasionally I may end up using the NOT so Softly approach........ and tell some Dickhead to just Piss Off and stop whinging about how hard done by they are. Because they're a runner who doesn't use the correct delivery methods, cuts corners, comes in early, works for free and then moans about some minor problem ...like someone nicking Their parking space in the yard...which means they have to walk further FFS!

No idea how to improve the attitude of these people. Some DOs just seem to have more than their fair share of Selfish Bastards with no backbone ! Other DOs seem very Militant (for want of a better word) and TBH they seem to get a better deal and are less effected by Management Bullying. Perhaps the problem lays with Experienced Posties who have never been out of their comfort zones, never working on another duty let alone another office. They take the attitude of a sub-contractor and have such tunnel vision that they're totally unaware of what's going on outside their own little world!

Bang on the money Sir but still does not make it right there needs to be something done about this unfair practise.. Postman on a signed duty knows his day off continually.. Reserve doesn't like I said I do the same job as everyone else get the same wages pay my Union dues I know I'm banging my head of a brick wall here but this problem needs to be addressed It's UNFAIR....What does it for me is a regular postman can make plans around his day off at anytime of the year because he knows when his day off falls..ie weekends away or make arrangement's on any given day reserves don't have that luxury and after 15 years service it's a bit much especially when people just come in the door and get these privileges that boils my water

[Dorset Plodder]

Have you tried the Softly Softly approach? I suffered from that problem in a previous Office. Explain to the DOM, giving him a letter at the same time, explaining that you cannot make any appointments for Doctors, Dentists etc because of the way he plans your duties. It's effecting your Family Life and causing you Stress!

Concede that you understand as a Reserve you may have to move around duties....However How many Duties & Reserves are in your Office? Normally a Reserve , if he's day off cover will only cover say 5 duties ( although it'lll probably be closer to 10) ........... Ask him if you can rotate through a set number of duties ( he can only say no and perhaps explain why).....If he insists on swapping you about ask if can at least give you 24hrs notice before changing which duty you're covering. Tell him it'll save him overtime on his budget...because you won't have to spend so long sorting & delivering unfamiliar duties Basically you've got to spell it out for him, preferably in words of one syllable, why what YOU want is going to be GOOd for HIM! Simply going in and moaning at him is not going to work.

As a last resort you can say your considering a Grievance Complaint (especially if other Reserves are on a rota & getting long weekend etc) for discrimination. Put one in and chase it up! What have you got to loose? Is he going to mess your duties about? Good Luck.

[meercat]

Where exactly in employment law does it state everyone should be treated the same?

I'd love to find the relevant Clause but don't have time, maybe this will do?


https://www.gov.uk/part-time-worker-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

''Part-time workers' rights
Part-time workers are protected from being treated less favourably than equivalent full-time workers just because they’re part time.
A part-time worker is someone who works fewer hours than a full-time worker. There is no specific number of hours that makes someone full or part-time, but a full-time worker will usually work 35 hours or more a week.

Part-time workers should get the same treatment for:

pay rates (including sick pay, maternity, paternity and adoption leave and pay)
pension opportunities and benefits
holidays
training and career development
selection for promotion and transfer, or for redundancy
opportunities for career breaks''




So the law is black and white, PT + FT should be treated the same unless an ‘objective justification’ excuse is cited. I haven't heard this justification from RM and if they have no valid reason to stop PT workers having their long-weekend which all other delivery staff have then they may be in breach of employment law. As I said, there could be a case but as 'days off' is not explicitly mentioned (but 'benefits' IS mentioned) they may get around the spirit of the law here.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Where exactly in employment law does it state everyone should be treated the same?

I'd love to find the relevant Clause but don't have time, maybe this will do?
https://www.gov.uk/part-time-worker-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No that wont do, if you read my post i clearly said that part time workers and people covered by equality act have protections, but you stated that

Employment law says everyone should be treated the same so unfavorable attendance days imposed should be done so across the board or not at all.

so where exactly in employment law does it state everyone must be treated the same as if that is the case then everyone should be on a ft contract and it would be unfair to give some people full time contracts and some not