Agreement for reserves

[motherhubbard]

Being treated unfairly and being discriminated against are two entirely separate things.

[chrisj]

Being discriminated will clearly be unfair. right?

Anyways, the deal for Reserves specifically gives them an inferior terms compared to a walkholder... In my view, it is discriminatory because it is part of the machination to treat Reserves as different in terms of expectations and other fringe benefits or what some might call entitlements.

As long as walkholders are not routinely moved or ask to give up certain privileges than the action is discriminatory. A manager should be able to ask a walkholder to perform a reasonable request and to do things because of office needs; not only are managers not using this power, the walkholders appear to have the backing of the Union to refuse.

We have had people walk out when asked to do a double-prep instead of being on IPS. Whereas, Reserves are constantly asked to do this and do that, change your day off to accommodate a walkholder who has asked for extras, denied saturdays even when on a saturday rota, coming in to work not knowing what you are doing, who you are working with, whether to get a van or park your here or there...

Sometimes, I come in thinking I am on a particular round; parked my car about 12/15 minutes away only to find out I have to be a Driver because a Driver has gone sick or not available - I have to walk to my car, then to the car park and so on; partner is a non-driver. You have some spare time, you put in the d2ds (especially for saturday) only to discover that you are on another round and have to do d2ds again...

We are all supposed to be the same grade and do the same job, so why are their difference in how we are treated?

[motherhubbard]

Being discriminated will clearly be unfair. right?

The term "discrimination" has certain legal implications.
If all the Catholics were made to do their D2D on Monday it could be classed as discrimination.
If all the people whose name began with B were, it wouldn't be discrimination. It would be unfair but not discrimination, unless it could be shown that those people whose name began with B were all pregnant or transgender.

Discrimination is a word that is bandied about far too frequently.
Being treated unfairly is not the same as being discriminated against.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

As mother says being discriminated against is automatically unfair, but being treated unfairly does not mean you are being discriminated against.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ ... s-at-work/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Discrimination

Discrimination means unfair treatment which is, in some way, related to a personal characteristic. It can be unlawful if it is to do with one of the following 'protected' characteristics:

age
disability
gender identity
marriage or civil partnership
pregnancy or maternity leave
race
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation.

There are different types of discrimination:

direct discrimination
harassment
indirect discrimination
victimisation
reasonable adjustments
discrimination arising from disability.

Direct discrimination occurs when someone is treated worse than other people because of one of the protected personal characteristics listed above. For example, if an Asian employee is not selected for promotion because of their race, this is direct race discrimination.

Harassment can also be a form of discrimination if it is related to one of those characteristics. Harassment can include verbal abuse, suggestive remarks and unwanted physical contact.

Indirect discrimination occurs where a particular employee is disadvantaged by a policy or requirement which is not justifiable in terms of the work. The disadvantage must be linked to one of the 'protected' characteristics. For example, if the employer only gives training to full-time workers, this would indirectly discriminate against women, as more women than men are part-time workers.

You may also be discriminated against if you are victimised because you have tried to complain or take action about discrimination.

If you’re disabled, employers have a duty to remove the barriers you face because of your disability so you can do your job and apply for jobs in the same way as someone who's not disabled. This is called the duty to make reasonable adjustments.

If you're disabled, your employer could also discriminate against you if you’re treated unfairly because of something arising from your disability rather than the disability itself.

For more information about your rights not to be discriminated against at work, see Discrimination at work.

If you've been discriminated against at work you can make a complaint or raise a grievance, and negotiate to try the resolve the issue. Or you can make a claim to an employment tribunal. There's a strict time limit for making a tribunal claim. This is usually three months minus one day from the date when the thing you are complaining about last happened. You must notify Acas of your tribunal claim. You should get advice about what to do before the time limit is up.

You can get help from an experienced adviser, for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by email, click on nearest CAB.
Bullying

[postslippete]

By dictionary definition Discrimination basically means treating a person or group of people differently, especially in a worse way. However, it is usually on the grounds of race, age or sex - not for being a reserve


I can say though, with experience, that some reserves working at the Royal Mail often get treated as cannon fodder. Duty holders get set days off in a week so they can plan their workloads and work/life balance - something that the Royal Mail continually pushes. But If you are a reserve your workload is basically Russian Roulette and like Chris says it often changes, like for example, someone goes sick and they need a driver to pair up with a non-driver. Often you have never done that delivery before so you are going to be a lot slower and a lot of mistakes happen like mis-deliveries.

Now we have longs and shorts, how would you feel if most of your days off happen to fall on Monday or Tuesdays? I have seen many a reserve complain about this to our good old Union reps. But nothing really happens. And why would it? Most of our previous reps only became involved in the CWU so that they could promote themselves anyway i.e. become managers. I think what is worst though, is witnessing people who have only worked for the business for just a few years being put on fixed duties yet there are others that have been there since England last won the Rugby World Cup and are working as reserves. So much for the old seniority lists eh?

So I will say it again. I have been trying to push it in our office anyway to the DOM and sundry, to start putting vacant duties up on the noticeboard like they used to every 6 months so. Let everyone in the office have the chance to apply for it - duty holders and reserves. Surely our DOM Support can do it in our office. I mean what else does he do but play solitaire on his PC and drink coffee?

[chrisj]

Well, you folks can have a field day on the semantics... I feel discriminated upon - and that is not just for being a Reserve but for being a Reserve that is not that senior and for having to put up with a whole load of crap that others do not have to.

I must add that I have not been with RM that long but being a Reserve in the last 4 years since the last major Revision is far worse than it has ever been. The last 2 years have been a real struggle: vacancies not been filled, people going off for sickness, stress and others, the explosion of 20+ part timers which means that I am forever working with part timers, having to double prep, be some sort of trainer and leader of partnerships, constantly working with different people (that will test anyone's patience and tolerance) and managers being so lazy and incompetent in the management of resources and manpower - it is not easy and not fair!

I have not even mentioned the lack of Saturdays off and not being able to plan holidays to tie in with days off - which one does not know and subject to change.

* I have had today, Monday off instead of Wednesday which was the day off for the person I am covering. Apparently, the office has a spare and I am needed on the Wednesday - the busiest day of the week; great!

[magicw]

To treat one group differentially from another is by definition " Discrimination ". Yes there are the 9 recognisable protected attributes such as Race, Gender, Ethnicity,Sexuality,Disability e.t.c, But just because the reason you are being treated differently isn't discernible to one of those attributes doesn't mean it isn't discrimination.

How can two groups of people employed to do the same job on the same pay for same number of hours have different entitlements when it comes to a fair share of Saturdays off work. How can one group always be re-deployed to make sure that they predominantly get only Tuesdays off.

Its got to the stage in our office where reserves only get to know their rest day for the following week , on returning from Duty on the Friday afternoon before the forthcoming week. It makes it utterly impossible to plan childcare if your partner also works.

I challenged Our DSM on this that there is an agreement that Reserves should know their rest days two weeks in advance, and was told flatly its not an agreement its a standard and one I am quite happy for your DOM not to meet!

As mentioned on here previously, Fixed duty holders can plan and maximise leave around knowing their rest days, A reserve has no such hope.

Every Fixed duty holder I know books their leave around a long weekend, enabling them to take 8 days for 5 days booked , we have no such chance.

As for double prepping , its common practice to start dropping in on a frame and then a manager to come and move you when its 3/4s prepped.
The amount of times I work through to clear a duty, thinking I m on it the next day, only to be moved in the morning onto one that hasn't gone out the day before or has been brought back by someone less diligent is laughable, That's why I always work my time and cut off now.

No I m not the first, and I wont be the last, You've all done your time at the shitty end I m sure. But It still doesn't make it right, and even if I m still in the job in 20 years time on the cushiest fixed walk in the office, I wouldn't sit their and mug off the reserves with an I m alright Jack attitude.

[geordieboy123]

To treat one group differentially from another is by definition " Discrimination ". Yes there are the 9 recognisable protected attributes such as Race, Gender, Ethnicity,Sexuality,Disability e.t.c, But just because the reason you are being treated differently isn't discernible to one of those attributes doesn't mean it isn't discrimination.

How can two groups of people employed to do the same job on the same pay for same number of hours have different entitlements when it comes to a fair share of Saturdays off work. How can one group always be re-deployed to make sure that they predominantly get only Tuesdays off.

Its got to the stage in our office where reserves only get to know their rest day for the following week , on returning from Duty on the Friday afternoon before the forthcoming week. It makes it utterly impossible to plan childcare if your partner also works.

I challenged Our DSM on this that there is an agreement that Reserves should know their rest days two weeks in advance, and was told flatly its not an agreement its a standard and one I am quite happy for your DOM not to meet!

As mentioned on here previously, Fixed duty holders can plan and maximise leave around knowing their rest days, A reserve has no such hope.

Every Fixed duty holder I know books their leave around a long weekend, enabling them to take 8 days for 5 days booked , we have no such chance.

As for double prepping , its common practice to start dropping in on a frame and then a manager to come and move you when its 3/4s prepped.
The amount of times I work through to clear a duty, thinking I m on it the next day, only to be moved in the morning onto one that hasn't gone out the day before or has been brought back by someone less diligent is laughable, That's why I always work my time and cut off now.

No I m not the first, and I wont be the last, You've all done your time at the shitty end I m sure. But It still doesn't make it right, and even if I m still in the job in 20 years time on the cushiest fixed walk in the office, I wouldn't sit their and mug off the reserves with an I m alright Jack attitude.

paulf0203 states in his post that the 2010 agreement allows reserves regular Saturday's off and he's right it does I've checked it, why are so many unaware of their entitlements?

[magicw]

paulf0203 states in his post that the 2010 agreement allows reserves regular Saturday's off and he's right it does I've checked it, why are so many unaware of their entitlements

Try getting your CWU rep to get your DOM to adhere to it! its laughable. It only works were there are offices with full staffing, My office has never been fully staffed.
The CWU (local) failed to agree with the Planners at the last revision , so it failed! as we haven't got our revision done, they wont advertise or fill the vacant duties and just absorb them with OT or lapsing.

When I ve pressed the case about 1 in 6 entitlement, I ve been told I am a " leave reserve " whatever the feck that is! ( sure my contract say RMPG with Driving full time) and due to the leave entitlements of Fixed duty holders, they cant accommodate any of my requests for a Saturday off or even get close to 1 in 6 ( I ve had 3 in just over 3 years time in )

The only person I have seen successfully challenge this, ( his father is an employment law specialist) got moved on to a Float Duty with rotation. Every one else just gets mugged off, By the Rep and the Dom. That's why I am looking/ considering taking independent advice on it.

The worst element for me , is not knowing my rest day until the Friday afternoon , before the next week commencing. I just cant plan child care as I don't know my day off. Therefore my Wife has to work Permanent lates which understandably makes her a bit pissed off.

If I push my line manager to let me know my day off, he just automatically gives me a Tuesday.

If it don't change I m going to look at Family Flexible working. Or a fixed rest day ( not a bloody Tuesday). But the levels of Sick are so high in our office that the Managers like the Flexibility of not being committed to letting the Reserves know when its their rest day. They have no motivation or reason to change things.

Even the bloody DSM is approving their actions.

[P739]

The Union has to take its fare share of the blame when it comes to the way reserves get treated....The Union should represent ALL IT'S members full stop....

[TrueBlueTerrier]

No argument that reserves can be treated badly, but if you think you are and wish to pursue a case then using the incorrect terminology WILL be used to weaken your case.

If you are being treated unfairly because you are not treated the same as other employees, or are being treated differently because of the type of duty you are employed on then you have a case and I would ALWAYS recommend taking action. But you aren't being discriminated against if they treat reserves differently, because its not a protected characteristic, and its not Indirect discrimination either because there is a policy, but its not being adhered to.

If you don't want to complain then call it what you want. If you want it changed then make your case as strong as possible by using the correct terminology.

[P739]

Why is the Union not fighting their corner for them is it because they are in the minority and the majority don't give a flying feck...If the Union sign up to anything it should be for ALL IT'S MEMBERS or NONE at all These guy's pay their dues like everyone else so should be treated like everyone else.

[MrCurious]

*Apology for long post*

My husband is a 'reservist'. Went from P/T reservist to P/T walkholder after 3 years. 2 years later went to F/T Reservist and been one since (2+ years). I've heard from him and others about the way that they are treated in comparison to their walkholder counterparts in his DO. Whatever agreements were made, they don't happen in reality and anyone who brave enough to take it further is risking their 'happiness at work' shall we say. He's no problem with not having a fixed duty wk to wk, although day to day each wk would be nice. However, we (as a family with kids) do have a problem with:

* Rarely if ever getting a Saturday off (meaning never getting 2 days off in a row unless there's a holiday Monday and if he does get that it's usually his scheduled day off and getting to book days in leui off is seemingly impossible)
* Being off on a disproportionate amount amount of Tuesdays (With the exception of when he's off on a holiday Monday strangely )
* Not knowing what day off he is until Friday or Saturday of the preceding week
* Being expected to swap from duty X to duty Z just because someone coming in on OT dictates they want a particular duty
* Having to do d2d's on one duty when he's already done them on another that week (reservists definitely do not get away with them in his DO as mentioned by a previous poster)
* Flexibility always being a one way street

There are other minor discrepances that pop up from time to time but these are the main ones that cause problems, not just for him at work but for us as a family with 2 working parents and kids. I'm sure this is the case for many of you out there and although I feel I can do little about it I just wanted to show my support and back up previous posters that this does go on (obv has done for a long time given the date of some prev posts) So if you want suggestions on what to change......see above.

[magicw]

* Rarely if ever getting a Saturday off (meaning never getting 2 days off in a row unless there's a holiday Monday and if he does get that it's usually his scheduled day off and getting to book days in leui off is seemingly impossible)
* Being off on a disproportionate amount amount of Tuesdays (With the exception of when he's off on a holiday Monday strangely )
* Not knowing what day off he is until Friday or Saturday of the preceding week
* Being expected to swap from duty X to duty Z just because someone coming in on OT dictates they want a particular duty
* Having to do d2d's on one duty when he's already done them on another that week (reservists definitely do not get away with them in his DO as mentioned by a previous poster)
* Flexibility always being a one way street

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ describes it to a tee! Don't mind what duty/ walk I m on. At the end of the day the Union does at least support the principle that I work my time. No more or less/ unless I choose. Although being moved continuously/ Prepping multiple walks and then being moved. means there is never a chance of finishing on time.

The main grumble is No Saturdays off. Certainly No long Weekends. And to add insult to injury not Knowing my rest day until the Friday off the week before
Therefore 48 hours notice at best.

I wont call it Discrimination, because its not because of a protected characteristic ( True enough) I call it what it is A f***ing Piss take!

And further more my Rep and the Management team at our DLO don't give a monkeys arse about it, because it doesn't effect them and their family.

[P739]

*Apology for long post*

My husband is a 'reservist'. Went from P/T reservist to P/T walkholder after 3 years. 2 years later went to F/T Reservist and been one since (2+ years). I've heard from him and others about the way that they are treated in comparison to their walkholder counterparts in his DO. Whatever agreements were made, they don't happen in reality and anyone who brave enough to take it further is risking their 'happiness at work' shall we say. He's no problem with not having a fixed duty wk to wk, although day to day each wk would be nice. However, we (as a family with kids) do have a problem with:

* Rarely if ever getting a Saturday off (meaning never getting 2 days off in a row unless there's a holiday Monday and if he does get that it's usually his scheduled day off and getting to book days in leui off is seemingly impossible)
* Being off on a disproportionate amount amount of Tuesdays (With the exception of when he's off on a holiday Monday strangely )
* Not knowing what day off he is until Friday or Saturday of the preceding week
* Being expected to swap from duty X to duty Z just because someone coming in on OT dictates they want a particular duty
* Having to do d2d's on one duty when he's already done them on another that week (reservists definitely do not get away with them in his DO as mentioned by a previous poster)
* Flexibility always being a one way street

There are other minor discrepances that pop up from time to time but these are the main ones that cause problems, not just for him at work but for us as a family with 2 working parents and kids. I'm sure this is the case for many of you out there and although I feel I can do little about it I just wanted to show my support and back up previous posters that this does go on (obv has done for a long time given the date of some prev posts) So if you want suggestions on what to change......see above.

Bang on the money and what does our Union do absolutely he haw....