Juniorority

[spen]

A lot leave due to a lack of training,,, being thrown in at the deep end,,, a complete lack of any man management from management

[wannabeek]

Yeah this is just a silly idea I think.

We've had newbies quit after a few days on an easy round, had others stay yet be left on shockers. I think they need to focus on stopping the stupidly high physical expectations of new starters and working them into the ground within the first month.

If they were properly trained, supported and guided they may not quit as soon as they realise what a shoddy company it really is!

[Mezza]

Certainly don't think "juniority" is advocated by the CWU as seniority seems to be a very fair way of allocating duties. After all, those that have done the other duties probably did them years ago. There are no real 'easy' duties anymore unless you are office bound.


.

SERIOUSLY !! Another idiot who thinks the indoor staff wait till everyone is out on delivery and then just sit around drinking coffee.
I have worked in the RLE for about 5 years now. 8 years on delivery before foot problems meant i was put in the RLE (i didn't ask for it).
I work my full hours every single day - no slipping off early once my delivery is done.

I fully accept not every office is the same and there are many where staff work to their time. In my office we have staff finishing anything up to 3 hours early some days and going home. Even when there are walks waiting to go out on OT or managers are waiting for them to get back so they can use their van to go and deliver (yes even 2 hrs before the staff that had the van have gone home).
My duty is full - there is no time for me to do anything else - even on quiet days i am catching up on paperwork that i don't have time for on the busy days etc.
I even had a 90 minute delivery stuck on me for about 12 months and failed my regular duty everyday.
We have 2 other indoor duties - callers and DOM support and they are as busy as me every day.
We can't sit down and have a fag whenever we want, managers peering over your shoulder all day.
Do i want to be back on delivery? Yeah sometimes, but generally i enjoy my job so in reality no i prefer what i do these days as my feet would never survive. I do the odd delivery when we're really short staffed now and then - but i don't get a choice or any notice of it - it's worse than being a reserve.

"Easy duty" - wake up you mug, you know nothing about working indoors and i suggest you try it sometime and find out what a days work really means. Delivery is far easier in my opinion.

[Pinky 1]

I think there might be some truth in this as our manager mentioned something abut it last week. Apparently they were discussing it at the sector meeting recently. There are concerns about the number of newbies that leave early in their career and the amount of time and money that has been invested in them going to waste. So they are looking at ways of keeping them and the idea is if they choose and are on a regular round they are more likely to stay! The more experienced staff would then be left with the so called 'more difficult' work. Nothing definite yet but one option they are looking at.

I've got an idea, why don't managers stop treating newbies like s**t. Then perhaps they wouldn't be in such a rush to leave.
The newbies already know what their start time is, their finish time, contract hours and their entitled break. For the majority of them that's all they want to do.
To be coerced into doing something else from week one onwards, with the threat of not renewing their contract, is going to piss off any newbie.


By the way Minnieminx, nice first post.

[Mezza]

Perhaps an even better idea would be for Union Reps to be a little more involved with newbies and inform them of what management will try and what they should and should not be doing - of course if they are in any doubt they can always ask the Rep for clarification.
Management only get away with this sort of stuff if they go unchallenged.

[Lounge Lizard]

I think there might be some truth in this as our manager mentioned something abut it last week. Apparently they were discussing it at the sector meeting recently. There are concerns about the number of newbies that leave early in their career and the amount of time and money that has been invested in them going to waste. So they are looking at ways of keeping them and the idea is if they choose and are on a regular round they are more likely to stay! The more experienced staff would then be left with the so called 'more difficult' work. Nothing definite yet but one option they are looking at.

I thought a way of keeping them was that they would be on the same round for the first six weeks.

[pants123]

I think there might be some truth in this as our manager mentioned something abut it last week. Apparently they were discussing it at the sector meeting recently. There are concerns about the number of newbies that leave early in their career and the amount of time and money that has been invested in them going to waste. So they are looking at ways of keeping them and the idea is if they choose and are on a regular round they are more likely to stay! The more experienced staff would then be left with the so called 'more difficult' work. Nothing definite yet but one option they are looking at.

Newbies are leaving because the work loads are a joke, its a torment now, not a job, thats why they are leaving..

[Martin Walsh]

No truth in changing from seniority.

However the actual agreement on new starters says the new recuit should be on the same walk for 12 weeks. Too many are now put straight on reserve or on a fix day cover and the amount who leave who have exit interviews who say that this is a reason they leave is high.

To get a recuit there must be an agreed vacancy and that is the job the new recuit should do for the first 12 weeks so they learn the job and than if it is a senior job than under the way forward there should be a mini resign.

There used to be agreed training walks in offices so it gave someone an opportunity to get used to a walk. Is it fair that a new recuit has to learn 5 different walks because he or she is doing a rest day cover job or a reserve duty ?

Seniority is not going and the way forward , MTSF references to seniority have not even been discussed to change.

[postslippete]

Certainly don't think "juniority" is advocated by the CWU as seniority seems to be a very fair way of allocating duties. After all, those that have done the other duties probably did them years ago. There are no real 'easy' duties anymore unless you are office bound.


.

SERIOUSLY !! Another idiot who thinks the indoor staff wait till everyone is out on delivery and then just sit around drinking coffee.
I have worked in the RLE for about 5 years now. 8 years on delivery before foot problems meant i was put in the RLE (i didn't ask for it).
I work my full hours every single day - no slipping off early once my delivery is done.

I fully accept not every office is the same and there are many where staff work to their time. In my office we have staff finishing anything up to 3 hours early some days and going home. Even when there are walks waiting to go out on OT or managers are waiting for them to get back so they can use their van to go and deliver (yes even 2 hrs before the staff that had the van have gone home).
My duty is full - there is no time for me to do anything else - even on quiet days i am catching up on paperwork that i don't have time for on the busy days etc.
I even had a 90 minute delivery stuck on me for about 12 months and failed my regular duty everyday.
We have 2 other indoor duties - callers and DOM support and they are as busy as me every day.
We can't sit down and have a fag whenever we want, managers peering over your shoulder all day.
Do i want to be back on delivery? Yeah sometimes, but generally i enjoy my job so in reality no i prefer what i do these days as my feet would never survive. I do the odd delivery when we're really short staffed now and then - but i don't get a choice or any notice of it - it's worse than being a reserve.

"Easy duty" - wake up you mug, you know nothing about working indoors and i suggest you try it sometime and find out what a days work really means. Delivery is far easier in my opinion.

Every office seems to be different


How do you know that I have never worked indoors?? I have worked in the Callers Office when on rehab myself and absolutely loved it!! Not the locker office though as theres too much backstabbing that goes on in there, especially when specials get allocated to the wrong posties! lol

However, a lot of delivery staff I know would rather work all their hours indoors now than face outdoor deliveries (which always seems to be getting larger) in the cold and wet.... Obviously some of our guys do finish early but it is the minority not the norm, but 3 hours early - is this on a 90 minute delivery?? can i put in for a transfer there ??

[Gilly856]

Apparently RM are looking to do away with seniorority and replace it with juniority. The reason being that the ones who have been there the longest know the job inside out and are less likely to leave. Whilst newcomers are more likely to leave in the first few weeks because of the added pressure of doing the harder walks. The junior staff will have first dibs on vacant duties and o/t and will be therefore less likely to jack it in.

Unbelievable

Some of the old and very bold will be twitching pmsl.

[wannabeek]

No truth in changing from seniority.

However the actual agreement on new starters says the new recuit should be on the same walk for 12 weeks. Too many are now put straight on reserve or on a fix day cover and the amount who leave who have exit interviews who say that this is a reason they leave is high.

To get a recuit there must be an agreed vacancy and that is the job the new recuit should do for the first 12 weeks so they learn the job and than if it is a senior job than under the way forward there should be a mini resign.

There used to be agreed training walks in offices so it gave someone an opportunity to get used to a walk. Is it fair that a new recuit has to learn 5 different walks because he or she is doing a rest day cover job or a reserve duty ?

Seniority is not going and the way forward , MTSF references to seniority have not even been discussed to change.

I think it's a very good idea and absolutely necessary to increase the number of weeks that a new starter stays on their first round now.

Back when I started (not many years ago) it was a 5 day week at least and I had 7 weeks on the first round. Nowadays the new starters are always part time on few hours and have a 3 day week and still 7 weeks on their first round.

I did my initial round 40 times before I was moved all around; a new starter since has only done their initial round 21 times before being moved all over the place. It's a massive difference when there's so much to learn in the early days.

[magicw]

We ve only had 4 new staff in 3 years despite about 10 duties being vacant ( funnily enough not going up for pick ) absorbed by lapsing and O.T.

The new starters have been put on a Fixed Duty for 10 weeks ( although only one has stuck with the job ) but in reality have been on Fixed duty with Rotating rest day for nearly 6 months now. ( but to be fair she is the only one who has stuck it.)

We are taking on another 4 this week who will again be on fixed duty with rotating rest day ( apparently until after Xmas Pressure) fair enough! but I bet they don't get moved to reserve in the New Year if they stick around. Makes you fume, No chance of even graduating up to a Float duty let alone fixed , when those joining the business after you are put on fixed duties to aid retention ( then never moved )

So this Juniority may not be the joke you think!

[ShropshireLad]

It's happened at least once in our office. Earlier this year the easiest and nicest FT round in the office became vacant as the duty holder retired. Instead of it being advertised and going to the most senior applicant, it was given to a part-timer who'd been there a couple of months, and she completes the round on overtime everyday. You can't blame her for taking the job - which of us wouldn't in her shoes, but it does seem unfair that we have a lad in his late 50's with over 30 years service and he's stuck being a floater, while someone who's just in the door gets a plum job.

[arnold cheshire]

It's happened at least once in our office. Earlier this year the easiest and nicest FT round in the office became vacant as the duty holder retired. Instead of it being advertised and going to the most senior applicant, it was given to a part-timer who'd been there a couple of months, and she completes the round on overtime everyday. You can't blame her for taking the job - which of us wouldn't in her shoes, but it does seem unfair that we have a lad in his late 50's with over 30 years service and he's stuck being a floater, while someone who's just in the door gets a plum job.

nice and easy plum job but completes on docket everyday?

[wannabeek]

I don't know, but I'd assume that the newbie is a part timer on rubbish hours so even a stupidly easy duty takes docket for them to cover.