Procedure for customers who are unable to sign?

[Surreypostie]

I've never been informed that you can sign for items for anybody. I wouldn't do it, especially for people who are capable but refusing on religious reasons. Sorry, nothing against any religion but if they deny having it then it is down to me. As for having it in the PDA manual, I didn't even know there was a PDA manual, our PDA training took about 90 seconds.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Not at all, it's exactly the same as I'd do for anyone that refuses to sign for something.

Why not just treat it as a Saturday shut?

but you dont take a saturday shut out to be signed for on a saturday it stays in the office and is scanned as such.

The customer has paid for a delivery to be attempted within the spec of the product, also within the spec of the product is that if a recipient refuses to sign for item it should be returned to the customer, at the end of the day we should be respecting our customers wishes and delivering the item in compliance with the service that has been purchased. it is not our job as posties to make up work arounds of the delivery specifications of products as we do not know what the customer would actually want us to do, if unable to sign then follow the correct procedure for that

for example a customer may send a legal citation by special delivery, the customer may intend on court action as soon as possible after the item is signed for, however on delivery attempt the recipient wont sign for the item claiming religious reason, so instead of sending it back straight away and scanning as refused the item is now going to be held in the delivery office for 18 days then sent back, so instead of knowing that the recipient refused the item on day 1 the sender is now going to have to wait nearly 3 weeks to find out that the recipient is not going to collect the item, and also at that point the customer still wont know that it was refused as the correct scan in the office will be to return as retention exceeded and not refused as it actually was in the first place

[Spedley]

I asked them if they want me to sign it on their behalf and put "signed by postie" and sign it myself.
I doubt there would be any comeback but if there is a query then I can explain what happened and that would be the end of it.

[SpacePhoenix]

Old/blind people who are unable to sign then I'd do it for them. If people refuse on religious grounds then I'd take it back as refused. It needs a signature, they don't want to sign then they don't get it.

Don't sign for it. There's a link posted by tbt I think to the PDA manual which tells you what to do if someone is unable to sign for an item

[meercat]

So it looks like the official line is you write:

DNS (did not sign)
SBP (signed by Postie)
DWS (delivered without signature)
CNS (could not sign)
Blind
Religious
Blind/Religious

plus an X for good luck.

And if you can't fit that lot into the signing box just press cancel and leave the packet under the nearest hedge. Works everytime.

[POSTMAN]

[Richard007]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty so I leave a wait form as no way am I signing she might say it never came & then I will be in trouble

[motherhubbard]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty so I leave a wait form as no way am I signing she might say it never came & then I will be in trouble

Once again I wonder if RM is falling foul of disability discrimination here.
If you alert your manager to the problem I don't see why you would have any problems signing for her.
The PDA will prove you were standing on her doorstep when you scanned the item.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty so I leave a wait form as no way am I signing she might say it never came & then I will be in trouble

Once again I wonder if RM is falling foul of disability discrimination here.
If you alert your manager to the problem I don't see why you would have any problems signing for her.
The PDA will prove you were standing on her doorstep when you scanned the item.

For disabilities like this there is a procedure in place, simply put name as DNS which stands for delivered no signature and that's it and hand over item, the procedure is in the pda manual

[motherhubbard]

For disabilities like this there is a procedure in place, simply put name as DNS which stands for delivered no signature and that's it and hand over item, the procedure is in the pda manual

We know that because the information has already been posted in the thread.
However before an employee can decide that that is the correct course of action they would need to know what possibly constitutes a disability and what their responsibilities are as a RM employee.
If the OPG doesn't know that OCD might be a disability, that s/he should err on the side of caution and treating people with a disability disadvantageously could be regarded as discrimination under the Equality Act, then the information in the PDA manual isn't of much use.
This needs to form part of an OPGs basic training.

In the same way I don't think - If a Jew won't sign on the Sabbath I'll just RTS the item - is the correct or legal procedure.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

For disabilities like this there is a procedure in place, simply put name as DNS which stands for delivered no signature and that's it and hand over item, the procedure is in the pda manual

We know that because the information has already been posted in the thread.
However before an employee can decide that that is the correct course of action they would need to know what possibly constitutes a disability and what their responsibilities are as a RM employee.
If the OPG doesn't know that OCD might be a disability, that s/he should err on the side of caution and treating people with a disability disadvantageously could be regarded as discrimination under the Equality Act, then the information in the PDA manual isn't of much use.
This needs to form part of an OPGs basic training.

In the same way I don't think - If a Jew won't sign on the Sabbath I'll just RTS the item - is the correct or legal procedure.

It's is part of the basic training. It's in the manual for the pda, the one you have signed to say you have read in the pda training records

as for RTS for a person observing the sabbath etc on certain days, that is the correct procedure as royal mail provide services that will stop such situations arising ie retention whether it be a saturday or a mid week one, if a recipient is not choosing to use such a service and then is refusing to sign for an item on a particular day of the week then yes the item should be returned as royal mail have not descriminated against a particular religion they have given a reasonable method to prevent such deliveries and as such should quite rightly be returned

[datasaint]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty

She would be right in thinking that then. You can always revert to an epod card and use that, she can use her own pen if need be.

[eric the viking]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty

She would be right in thinking that then. You can always revert to an epod card and use that, she can use her own pen if need be.

What!...and touch a dirty card. Are you mad?

[meercat]

I have a customer who refuses to sign as she won't touch pda as she has OCD & thinks it's dirty so I leave a wait form as no way am I signing she might say it never came & then I will be in trouble

Once again I wonder if RM is falling foul of disability discrimination here.
If you alert your manager to the problem I don't see why you would have any problems signing for her.
The PDA will prove you were standing on her doorstep when you scanned the item.

What about disability favouritism? If this lady who won't touch the PDA is given the right by RM to recieve parcels without signing I would assume if you have a recorded packet or letter that fits through the letter box you don't even need to knock, just do a DNS and post it through. Yet her neighbour who is also not is gets a form left card and has to wait a day and drive 10miles to pick up her recorded letter that would have gone through the door.

So are we positively discriminating here and does the neighbour with the form left card have a legitimate grievance in that she is inconvenienced yet her neighbour gets seemingly preferential treatment. Where is the equality there? ?

[yellowbelly]

Ladies and Gents, here's my ten pence worth to the discussion from the experience of having
had to go on an E & D course every three years in my previous job (aaaagggghhh) and having a
person with a disability in the workplace but (as you'll see from my posting history) not being a postie yet!!

A lot of people (me included!) always found scenarios such as this hard to get their heads around
and often there were 'disagreements', but here we go.......!

OCD situation - RM is 'acting positively' (not positively discriminating ) and making reasonable adjustments by apparently providing a method of recording on the PDA
that the person WNS/CNS/DNS for the delivery as the OCD is being interpreted as being a disability (which it can be according to .gov.uk website).

Next door neighbour (without OCD) is not being discriminated against - Equality Act 2010, including Part 2, Ch 2, Para 13, sub para 3:

If the protected characteristic is disability, and B is not a disabled person, A does not discriminate against B only because
A treats or would treat disabled persons more favourably than A treats B.

As they say at the end of exam questions - 'discuss' or more likely - rip to pieces........

YB