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lapsing proceedure

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
Glenno
Posts: 1491
Joined: 05 Jun 2007, 13:12

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by Glenno »

raikky wrote:its like what is said above knowledge is key. but most people would rather moan and cry about it than do owt about it. there are plenty of rules in place for this kind of thing and many others. you just have to know the system.

lfor example

if your model traffic is 50000 for a Monday. and you manager than calculates it all out and comes out with 50000 as the actual figure. that means everything should be able to be completed without any overtime.if its over, say 1000, the manager will prob have a rough idea beforehand and bring part timers in early to compensate for this.if its under, then there are more hours in the office than workload,(hence the need for lapsing) so if your traffic is above model, then its likely that you may even go over on your duty. this information is gold for you so use it.

now the problem can be that managers might not even bother to check the traffic. I think a lot of it is computed but our manager says this gives an incorrect figure so we count all our boxes or large small etc and he challenges these figures to his dsm etc.

(if im wrong about the above tha correct me but this is what our manager told us ..
There is a predicted figure (thru the tools) and there is an "actual figure" which comes out later in the day :wave :wave
and they are poles apart
A2B
Posts: 2034
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 19:34
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by A2B »

Glenno wrote:
A2B wrote:
Richard007 wrote: Well where are we supposed to ring them from ? there are no call boxs anymore & don't have a mobile if I did it's not right me paying to ring them !
I take lapsing on Tuesday & Saturday & maybe if workload permits I will take it on other days but mostly my round goes into extended delivery anyway so I just tell manager before I leave office , really annoying though that some posties come in 30 -40 mins early so they do their lapsing & make the rest of us seem lazy
People using their own phones to contact managers is one thing that really annoys me and i see mentioned on here very often, they are employed to manage let them decide before you go out what you should take or leave behind. If they want us to contact them they need to supply the means and before it's mentioned we have not been shown how to use the phone function on the pda and were told from the start not to use it for calls.
This second quote annoys me, the PDA is a bit of kit to be used appropiately, If you have not been trained on how to use it FULLY don't bloody sign it off on the resign, if needs be I and others on here can advice on using the phone on the PDA, I think Fishtank done summit on this a while ago :wave :wave
"Don't sign it off on the resign?" we didn't have pda's when we had our resign, i've signed for nothing to say i've been trained to use one and as i've previously said we were specifically told they were not to be used for voice communication. I communicate with my manager before i leave the office and work accordingly, if he needs me once i've left the office he/she know where to find me

I know how to use the pda for what i need so any unpaid training you want to do for Royal Mail i'll pass on thanks
eastie
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 2234
Joined: 16 Jun 2011, 15:32
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by eastie »

zx135 wrote:
raikky wrote:you said you had no chance of doing it in your time. so the simple thing when you know tat is to go up to your manager and tell him/her 'I don't have any opportunity to lapse today'

remember, if traffic is above model, then no collapsing. I never lapse when its above model but we have plenty of idiots who come in early miss their break, collapse and come back moaning complaining teyve gone over.

lol my manager come round a few days ago and said 'do you have 30 minutes spare to take some extra out?' 'no' and he walks off. best thing is to give them short affirm answers until they bugger off and pick on someone else

It surprises me how many posties are oblivious to their office model week traffic figures, a little bit of knowledge would go a long way help reduce the bullying caused by managers, if posties went and got those figures its the best ammo they can use when saying no i dont have time, cant really argue with the figures because the DOM agreed to them in the first place, its what he built his house of cards out of
Its not the mail on my council round its the packets, 4 packet bags a day of parcels for the walker on P/L doesn't show on a model week
Bahia Feliz
Posts: 1169
Joined: 22 Sep 2008, 21:04
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by Bahia Feliz »

And why are the 'actual' figures always lower than the model week figures?!!
OnAFlyer
Posts: 1938
Joined: 16 Aug 2009, 14:24
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by OnAFlyer »

If we had 8 packet bags we wouldn't even get close to finishing our own walks, never mind collapsing as well.
IloveMYredTROLLEY!
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 1923
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 06:54
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by IloveMYredTROLLEY! »

I was under the impression that "model week" numbers were not just one total (eg. 50000), it gave a figure for letters and a figure for parcels like (eg. 35000/15000). So if they announce traffic is 40000 and is under model week, but the split is 20000/20000, you have a heavier depot workload as (attendance) parcels are what each up a lot of delivery time.

Yes, IPS in theory will be done quicker, but there are only so many of the IPS team that can go and assist the parcel sorting team, before there are too many OPGs getting in each others way.
Hitcher
Posts: 1537
Joined: 20 Sep 2009, 09:59
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by Hitcher »

Cut Off King wrote:What are the CWU doing about this.......Oh thats right, nothing as they agreed to it.
What can they do when people don't do the job properly in the first place? :arrrghhh

They've been telling us for years to come in on time and take breaks but hardly anyone listens because they want to get home early - managers see people finishing early and assume there's spare time so they lapse more. Idiots moan but still carry on in their own little world!
raikky
Posts: 212
Joined: 19 Jun 2011, 01:09
Gender: Female

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by raikky »

Its right to say some duties vary from another, likewise offices too.

Our revisions were based around 4 1/2 hours of outdoor work. or something like that. because our office has a large amount of packets, the revision team made our walks 3 1/2 hours long. which meant becsuse of all the packets that gave us an hour for all the extra packets we have. and that's just regular packets which will go in yoru bag. from sept we have all our tracks and large packets taken out in the morning otherwise we wouldn't cope.

tbh, if you have your own duty and you've been on it for a while you should be able to know roughly what time your gonna finish at or long it will take. we cant always be exact of course.

packets should show on model. its all been planned. although maybe not verywell planned but everything you get should of been taken into account.
Jpro747
Posts: 1342
Joined: 23 Dec 2012, 10:22
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by Jpro747 »

How can we find out what the model week is, and how do we know if it's above it?
eastie
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 2234
Joined: 16 Jun 2011, 15:32
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by eastie »

IloveMYredTROLLEY! wrote:I was under the impression that "model week" numbers were not just one total (eg. 50000), it gave a figure for letters and a figure for parcels like (eg. 35000/15000). So if they announce traffic is 40000 and is under model week, but the split is 20000/20000, you have a heavier depot workload as (attendance) parcels are what each up a lot of delivery time.

Yes, IPS in theory will be done quicker, but there are only so many of the IPS team that can go and assist the parcel sorting team, before there are too many OPGs getting in each others way.
problem is that it is an average
You can have one round with 4 packet bags of parcels and another with one packet bag.
We had a check done a few years ago showing in percentage how much letters and parcels were on each round but when they did the revision all they were interested in was Pegasus . What has happened now with the increase in parcels in general is that even though the percentages have stayed roughly the same, the rounds with large parcel counts have increased in numbers more than the small rounds.
Loops that were one bag are now 2 bags
IloveMYredTROLLEY!
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 1923
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 06:54
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by IloveMYredTROLLEY! »

If weather forecasts had real world data saved on computers for their weather model the same way as RM attempt to get real world letter/parcel figures for individual rounds, the computer weather model would be far less accurate with one day's data per year entered into the model (going on how often we are asked to get figures in our depot).

It's no wonder some walks can be battered on the same days they talk of "below model week" figures, their data set is a load of rhubarb, in a constantly changing RM situation how can they possibly expect their token real world data to be remotely accurate?
raikky
Posts: 212
Joined: 19 Jun 2011, 01:09
Gender: Female

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by raikky »

Jpro747 wrote:How can we find out what the model week is, and how do we know if it's above it?
Ask your manager they will know.
postslippete
Posts: 4202
Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 16:27
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by postslippete »

We didn't take out any of the extra lapse today, but what hard work it was!!

Firstly, we were told by our current line manager for the week that those that did not have the council letters yesterday would do the extra lapsing (that was us) and that those who have the council letters today would not do the extra lapsing (that was supposed to be us!)

However, he has decided to collapse 2 duties today (instead of 1 yesterday) even though most duties did not take their 2nd lot of mech yesterday (because of transport difficulties or something). Furthermore, it was his day off so he has left a lot of problems with the covering manager. Now we both counted at least 6 full trays of mech and that was before we were due to receive our 2nd wave!! lol

We decided to contact the lino and the union rep (but he's neither use nor ornament at times), but obviously the gaffer was not aware of what had gone on yesterday, so the DOM approached us. He didn't seem happy that we were not going to be doing the extra lapsing. He mentioned that he could see some gaps in the frame (a sly approach i guess). But my poker hand was dealt for me when another 3 full trays of mech arrived. He then gave us an option. You don't have to put the mech in today, as long as you take out the extra lapse. Some choice! We would still have to take out the extra loop taking us to our time today and then face a busy Saturday starting off with at least 3 trays of mech and/or a lapsed loop as well! He got desperate. Well, would you like any overtime today? I informed him that I did a few loops of overtime yesterday which took me to 4.30pm and have been working since 5am today, so no thanks. He disappeared. What are we doing then, I ask my P&L partner?? Well, he didn't give us an answer. When we had tied up and everyone else had gone. We got back in touch with our lino; and he said it was fine, it was being covered.

I don't very often not take out the extra lapsing but what hard work it was convincing them!! Any idiot could see the amount of work we had to get through, but it seems the DOMs budget is more important than anything else. As we drove back to the office at 10 minutes past our time, we spotted a postie still delivering some of the lapse duty, probably unpaid. Now define Irony...
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
Bahia Feliz
Posts: 1169
Joined: 22 Sep 2008, 21:04
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by Bahia Feliz »

postslippete wrote: Now define Irony...
Define 'Extra' lapsing please?
Postie45
Posts: 2160
Joined: 21 Aug 2012, 23:05
Gender: Male

Re: lapsing proceedure

Post by Postie45 »

postslippete wrote:We didn't take out any of the extra lapse today, but what hard work it was!!

Firstly, we were told by our current line manager for the week that those that did not have the council letters yesterday would do the extra lapsing (that was us) and that those who have the council letters today would not do the extra lapsing (that was supposed to be us!)

However, he has decided to collapse 2 duties today (instead of 1 yesterday) even though most duties did not take their 2nd lot of mech yesterday (because of transport difficulties or something). Furthermore, it was his day off so he has left a lot of problems with the covering manager. Now we both counted at least 6 full trays of mech and that was before we were due to receive our 2nd wave!! lol

We decided to contact the lino and the union rep (but he's neither use nor ornament at times), but obviously the gaffer was not aware of what had gone on yesterday, so the DOM approached us. He didn't seem happy that we were not going to be doing the extra lapsing. He mentioned that he could see some gaps in the frame (a sly approach i guess). But my poker hand was dealt for me when another 3 full trays of mech arrived. He then gave us an option. You don't have to put the mech in today, as long as you take out the extra lapse. Some choice! We would still have to take out the extra loop taking us to our time today and then face a busy Saturday starting off with at least 3 trays of mech and/or a lapsed loop as well! He got desperate. Well, would you like any overtime today? I informed him that I did a few loops of overtime yesterday which took me to 4.30pm and have been working since 5am today, so no thanks. He disappeared. What are we doing then, I ask my P&L partner?? Well, he didn't give us an answer. When we had tied up and everyone else had gone. We got back in touch with our lino; and he said it was fine, it was being covered.

I don't very often not take out the extra lapsing but what hard work it was convincing them!! Any idiot could see the amount of work we had to get through, but it seems the DOMs budget is more important than anything else. As we drove back to the office at 10 minutes past our time, we spotted a postie still delivering some of the lapse duty, probably unpaid. Now define Irony...
sounds like youre on the right tracks but could do with a being a little stronger than youre being. Why are you coming back 10 minutes after your time (and im assuming even later when booking back in packets etc) ? I can imagine from the managers attitude that you have an office of runners. If you feel you wont complete then make the managers make decisions, and follow them out to the best of your ability. If they dont want to make any decision follow the cut off procedure.