UKIP door to doors

[mailman71]

We should deliver all candidates,we live in a democracy so despite not liking most of the parties we must deliver all

[wabbithunta]

There are some poorly informed people on here, or perhaps they don't understand a fairly simple process, and are muddying the water through ignorance or spite.

1. Royal Mail has to get all the leaflets delivered for all recognised parties and candidates standing in an election. Ergo no postie has any influence on the outcome of the election just by exercising their agreed right to refuse to deliver based on moral or safety grounds.

2. Any postie can refuse to deliver any parties/candidates leaflet as long as they have a moral objection or a safety concern. If you support the BNP and you can come up with a cognisant argument not to deliver a SWP one, then you are merely exercising your rights within a democratic country, and I would support you in your endeavours, if not your political choice.

Can we claim to be a democratic country if we refuse to allow people a personal conscience whether you agree with it or not, can people really claim Freedom of Speech as a right, then decry people who exercise a right under that freedom, just because its their party that the postie has an objection to.

If you agree that any far right or far left party should have freedom to express their opinions when and where they can, why are you against individuals expressing an opinion based on their own morals. Party rights outweighing individual rights - quite a totalitarian standpoint.

[deristrong]

I'm white but my wife descends from Bongo Bongo Land. Should I tell her what I'm doing for 15 quid?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I to will have to deliver a boxload of left wing labour drivel. Just pretend your delivering a urine sample,
But hey, I don't want to get into a political debate

Labour - Left wing Ohh thats a good one. So left wing they wanted to part privatise Royal Mail, so left wing they never rescinded any major anti union laws, so left wing they invaded another country without UN approval, so left wing they closed 2,500 Post Offices so left wing the accepted a donation from the multi billionaire Bernie Ecclestone. so left wing that the iconic figure of Tony Blair supports an autocratic monarchy that does not allow freedom of speech or any form of dissention. Still if you think they are left wing you are entitled to your opinion but mine is that they are just a paler version of the Tories.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I'm white but my wife descends from Bongo Bongo Land.

Is she a literary character ? if so could she get me Tintins autograph, or some Gold from the mine.

[deristrong]

I'm white but my wife descends from Bongo Bongo Land.

Is she a literary character ? if so could she get me Tintins autograph, or some Gold from the mine.

Ask Godfrey Bloom

[bustedflush]

There are some poorly informed people on here, or perhaps they don't understand a fairly simple process, and are muddying the water through ignorance or spite.

1. Royal Mail has to get all the leaflets delivered for all recognised parties and candidates standing in an election. Ergo no postie has any influence on the outcome of the election just by exercising their agreed right to refuse to deliver based on moral or safety grounds.

2. Any postie can refuse to deliver any parties/candidates leaflet as long as they have a moral objection or a safety concern. If you support the BNP and you can come up with a cognisant argument not to deliver a SWP one, then you are merely exercising your rights within a democratic country, and I would support you in your endeavours, if not your political choice.

Can we claim to be a democratic country if we refuse to allow people a personal conscience whether you agree with it or not, can people really claim Freedom of Speech as a right, then decry people who exercise a right under that freedom, just because its their party that the postie has an objection to.
If you agree that any far right or far left party should have freedom to express their opinions when and where they can, why are you against individuals expressing an opinion based on their own morals. Party rights outweighing individual rights - quite a totalitarian standpoint.

On the other hand, can we claim to be a democratic country if one postman can deny 500 households access to political material they happen to dislike? So, it has to be delivered. Postman A won't deliver UKIP material. Postman B won't deliver LieBore material, and so-on. So what happens then? Due to the fact as you state that is has to be delivered, does the UKIP non-objector swap rounds with the LieBore non-objector each time the leaflets arrive? Where would it stop?
Why can't people just take the extra cash and deliver the effing leaflets and move on? Whether they do or don't we'll still have the same corrupt thieving tossers from Eton in power, still be economically bankrupt, still be in the E-USSR, still have hundreds of thousands of lo-cost migrants arriving, still have potholed roads and sh!t hospitals and thick schoolchildren and obese unhealthy benefit-dependants on our rounds.....

[deristrong]

Is that right London Blue Shirts are getting 6p for each? If so, how come?

[trevjim]

to be honest they are all as bad as each other/ the same, we are, and have been run by a shadow government of elitist rich snobs and their buddies for a long time now. Choosing which party to be in power is just making you think we the people have control, all we are doing is choosing their face/puppet

[TrueBlueTerrier]

On the other hand, can we claim to be a democratic country if one postman can deny 500 households access to political material they happen to dislike?

One postman isn't denying 500 households access to them though, he is exercising his rights which the Union have agreed with Royal Mail. However if you believe that the rights of a Political Party whatever their colour, can overrule the honestly held moral position of an individual then whilst thats a Political position some people have, its not one I can support, neither is it one I recognised as supporting serving in the forces for nearly 2 decades either. Individual choice must always be pre-eminent over Party, Corporate or Government imposition. After all "All hail to the Party" and Party politics is what got us in this mess in the first place.

So, it has to be delivered. Postman A won't deliver UKIP material. Postman B won't deliver LieBore material, and so-on. So what happens then?

Thats up to the manager he can use volunteers, its in the agreement, or he can get a reserve to do it, he could even ask the 2 objectors to swap so that the leaflets are delivered.

Due to the fact as you state that is has to be delivered, does the UKIP non-objector swap rounds with the LieBore non-objector each time the leaflets arrive? Where would it stop?

Why not the UKIP supporter will be helping his choice of party as will the Liebore party, or someone who is active with each party may be willing to make a few easy quid.

[bustedflush]

On the other hand, can we claim to be a democratic country if one postman can deny 500 households access to political material they happen to dislike?

One postman isn't denying 500 households access to them though, he is exercising his rights which the Union have agreed with Royal Mail. However if you believe that the rights of a Political Party whatever their colour, can overrule the honestly held moral position of an individual then whilst thats a Political position some people have, its not one I can support, neither is it one I recognised as supporting serving in the forces for nearly 2 decades either. Individual choice must always be pre-eminent over Party, Corporate or Government imposition. After all "All hail to the Party" and Party politics is what got us in this mess in the first place.

So, it has to be delivered. Postman A won't deliver UKIP material. Postman B won't deliver LieBore material, and so-on. So what happens then?

Thats up to the manager he can use volunteers, its in the agreement, or he can get a reserve to do it, he could even ask the 2 objectors to swap so that the leaflets are delivered.

Due to the fact as you state that is has to be delivered, does the UKIP non-objector swap rounds with the LieBore non-objector each time the leaflets arrive? Where would it stop?

Why not the UKIP supporter will be helping his choice of party as will the Liebore party, or someone who is active with each party may be willing to make a few easy quid.

I am sure you are being obtuse here by not seeing the bigger picture. 'Individual choice' in the strongest form is what we have at the ballot box. You say 'honestly held moral position' which can essentially be substituted by 'discretion'. And we all know that discretion=discrimination....which is one reason for example why RM does not have 'discretionary' sick pay.
If I was employed as a barman, would I be morally excused for not serving somebody wearing a UKIP badge if I were opposed to them? Or if working in a shop I refused to sell lotto tickets as I am 'honestly' morally opposed to gambling? The real reason this union agreement exists is because of BNP leaflets in ethnic areas and the resulting reservations about safety at the time.
It isn't 'the rights of a political party overriding the rights of the individual' at all - the fact is RM and we get paid to deliver them and we should treat all customers equally irrespective of our opinions about those customers. After all, if you hated UKIP and had a house with those big yellow and purple posters in its window on your round, you'd still deliver their mail, would you not? I am morally opposed to fat tattooed greasy slobs sitting in their gardens swilling cans of lager in the mornings in summer funded by my taxes, but I still, with a rictus smile, deliver their DSS brown envelopes.
We should just get on with what we are paid to do with minimum complication and p!ssballing about. In my honest opinion.

[Tman]

I am sure you are being obtuse here

Hmm maybe, maybe not. This is the poster who claimed that Labour invaded another country without UN approval, after all....

[clashcityrocker]

Teebs - stop being obtuse and see the bigger picture.

I believe the "conscience clause" exists because of the dangers faced by posties delivering Sinn Fein leaflets in predominantly Loyalist areas and vice versa.

BELFAST - A young Roman Catholic was shot dead in an attack claimed by Protestant guerrillas as he arrived for work on Saturday in Belfast, where dozens had been injured in mob violence this week. Postman Daniel McColgan, 20, was gunned down in Rathcoole, a Protestant district on the edge of north Belfast. The killing was claimed by the Red Hand Defenders, a pro-British loyalist group, in a call to the BBC.

It might have been a bit difficult for him to get on and do what he was paid to do.

[bustedflush]

Teebs - stop being obtuse and see the bigger picture.

I believe the "conscience clause" exists because of the dangers faced by posties delivering Sinn Fein leaflets in predominantly Loyalist areas and vice versa.

BELFAST - A young Roman Catholic was shot dead in an attack claimed by Protestant guerrillas as he arrived for work on Saturday in Belfast, where dozens had been injured in mob violence this week. Postman Daniel McColgan, 20, was gunned down in Rathcoole, a Protestant district on the edge of north Belfast. The killing was claimed by the Red Hand Defenders, a pro-British loyalist group, in a call to the BBC.

It might have been a bit difficult for him to get on and do what he was paid to do.

Maybe, maybe not. If that were the case, then surely the clause would be specific to Ulster as fortunately murdering postmen for political reasons isn't something society has descended into in mainland UK.

[chrisj]

There was I thinking why is there a money incentive to deliver electoral materials. I thought they would have been treated just like d2ds. But now I see...

Apart from the volume - we could have as many as 12 or so different parties, we can also add the conscientious objectors to the mix as well.

It is not going to be a big deal if someone refuses to deliver any of the leaflets because there will be other willing to do the job for the money. It is as simple as that.

Imagine, having all the 12 leaflets or so to deliver in one go over a Sunday or evening? Job will be a good one and loads of money to boot.