1 hour think tank - Mandatory or BS ?

[tommyrep]

What is the objection to this? is it the time issue or is it simply being asked your opinion?

I think the objection is simple to see, or maybe not in your case ! There is a massive difference in being asked to attend a " think tank" scenario and been told YOU MUST attend !! As previous posters have stated, within RM paid time there is and can be NO objection, but, if that impacts on failing completion of mail delivery within contracted time the onus is on RM to arrange cover for that mail delivery - I do believe RM are seeking solution to problems of their making, hence simply being asked your opinion has a large dose of hypocrisy attached.

[Brain Fury]

What is the objection to this? is it the time issue or is it simply being asked your opinion?

Are our opinions listened to....?

My think tank idea is to abolish corruption when B&H are investigated, by introducing TRAINED INDEPENDANT UNBIASED people, NOT PAID BY ROYAL MAIL, to conduct them.

Well they definitely won't be if you (not you personally) don't participate. It was just that I get the concern about loss of working time but I wasn't clear why some posters seemed to object to the very idea of being asked to offer an opinion.

It's a commonly held belief that good employers communicate well and involve their employees by giving them the opportunity to give their opinions. On this board the overwhelming view seems to be that as a matter of principle people don't want to be communicated with and certainly don't want to be asked for ideas.

[Shambles]

Being asked, is different to being told, threatened, bullied...which to me doesn't sound like the best way to communicate to ones employees...does it?

[Shambles]

Business standards are not followed by Management, who are some times the culprits, Zero Tolerance to B&H is just words in your silly little book! If you some Management high up the food chain were ever spoken to or treated like myself and many other 1000's of your employees....you may actually understand how it feels to be stripped of your dignity daily, year in year out....procedures set in place Corrupt, abused and falsified


We have had enough of being pushed around, it's time to....

Change the culture first, then maybe people will start to respect their Management, feel appreciated, be more productive, producing better efficiency and less stress related absences, therefore, higher profitability, for the Fat Cat Bonuses, it isn't Rocket Science, is it?

[Brain Fury]

Being asked, is different to being told, threatened, bullied...which to me doesn't sound like the best way to communicate to ones employees...does it?

Threatened or bullied obviously not. Making it mandatory? I'm not sure. Personally I probably wouldn't but I can see why it might be done.

[Brain Fury]

Business standards are not followed by Management, who are some times the culprits, Zero Tolerance to B&H is just words in your silly little book! If you some Management high up the food chain were ever spoken to or treated like myself and many other 1000's of your employees....you may actually understand how it feels to be stripped of your dignity daily, year in year out....procedures set in place Corrupt, abused and falsified


We have had enough of being pushed around, it's time to....

Change the culture first, then maybe people will start to respect their Management, feel appreciated, be more productive, producing better efficiency and less stress related absences, therefore, higher profitability, for the Fat Cat Bonuses, it isn't Rocket Science, is it?

It's an interesting question to ponder how the culture of the business changed over the years and what was cause and effect. The problem for Royal Mail is that it has continually struggled to move with the change in it's circumstances so the culture which worked 40 years ago became outdated and both management and staff have failed to adapt. It's this more than anything else that will lead to the failure of the business. So that I agree that the culture needs to change but I think it needs to change on both "sides". The problem is changing culture is so difficult particularly in the middle of so many other major changes.

[Shambles]

The Culture won't change I realise that, having read these statistics...

a two-year extension to her original five-year contract.[7] However, in her last year of tenure, the Canadian Union of Postal Workers marked her fourth anniversary with a report card, with the CUPW's President Denis Lemelin commenting: "If you compare the four years before Greene with the four years under Greene's management, the numbers show that injuries have gone up 15.4% and grievances have gone up 59.3%."[7]

rest my case!

[Brain Fury]

What is the objection to this? is it the time issue or is it simply being asked your opinion?

Its to improve the office, cant be a time thingas theyre paying us OT to attend

As I understand your OP you just don't want to be involved? It seems a fairly common attitude.

I experienced something similar years ago when we invited the team to suggest ways to improve our ways of working (it was an office rather than an operational environment). The meeting was held during working hours and to that extent was mandatory but the idea was to get input from everybody not just the usual suspects who were always putting forward ideas anyway. It never really worked because there was hard core of people who simply refused to contribute anything. What was noticeable was that the people with the least to say in the meeting were the most vocal outside it about how rubbish everything was.

[Brain Fury]

Its like when they told us to clear other peoples excess d2d between us on our own rounds by sticking them anywhere. That was mandatory too. I knew it wasnt, found out for sure on here, told my area rep, he contacted the director of mail, and it was stopped the week after. Did I get any thanks? No, I just got hauled into the office as about 20 people went to management saying "Jimmy Carr said we dont have to take these d2d"

I wont be made a fool or, and whenever I can i`ll stand up for what I know to be the truth. Little battles is all we get to win nowadays, so ill take what I can.

OK JCL - obviously a lot more background to your issue than I realised.

[trythat]

What is the objection to this? is it the time issue or is it simply being asked your opinion?

Its to improve the office, cant be a time thingas theyre paying us OT to attend

As I understand your OP you just don't want to be involved? It seems a fairly common attitude.

I experienced something similar years ago when we invited the team to suggest ways to improve our ways of working (it was an office rather than an operational environment). The meeting was held during working hours and to that extent was mandatory but the idea was to get input from everybody not just the usual suspects who were always putting forward ideas anyway. It never really worked because there was hard core of people who simply refused to contribute anything. What was noticeable was that the people with the least to say in the meeting were the most vocal outside it about how rubbish everything was.

We've tried simalr things in our office, not on OT or mandatory and the reason they don't work is for a couple of reasons, from an OPG view if things take less time to do, then some one at in the end is lightly to be out of a job, and any ideas that might have a cost associated with it, or might mean less time on delivery will not even be looked at. So why would I want to have anything to do with WCM, which is what it is by any other name?

[UnhappyGremlin]

The main reason most people don't want to engage with these types of things, is that whatever the subject/issue might be, the manager has usually decided what action they're going to take, they ask only to show to their boss that they have done.

We are always asked for input in revisions. Not one of our ideas has ever been used. So now we don't bother to offer an opinion, we don't see the point.
We get asked in WTLL if we have questions to ask/issues to raise, and we don't bother with that anymore either. Guess why.

[hampshireman]

What was noticeable was that the people with the least to say in the meeting were the most vocal outside it about how rubbish everything was.

Thats the norm unfortunately, it happens everywhere. The thing is, they came to us for ideas in the past, regarding whens best to lapse, hows best to do IPS regarding PnL, and other stuff. They then ignored us and did what they want anyway, and its got to the point now where people are so tired, physicaly aswell as mentaly, and are being worked non stop and treated like criminals, that no one has the energy or the will to even try to participate in a goodwilled way.

Personaly I get treated like s**t, I do all the IPS with 1-2 guys EVERY day, and get away with nothing EVER, yet all I see is people getting little deals, of less ips, rows taken off, packets taken off, early morning overtime ips to the same people day in day out, and it stinks to high heaven. The worse you are the job the better your treated at my place. The cretins get away with murder.

I start maybe 15 mins early to get my mech mail in, as im called onto IPS bang on my start time and when I get off there the entire office is bagging up, and id have an empty frame, I dont have my break, and I rush my arse off - I do this because it suits me, if I worked to rule id finish on time, this way I get an hour at home before the school run, so im kinda flexi time. I do nothing wrong ever, and yet ive had 6 x 2 yr serious warnings in the 9 years at my current office, my previous office I had 13 years clean record.

So things like this, make my blood boil. If im told something that I think is wrong, I try to prove that im right, and if this things mandatory my middle names mohammed. I just cant prove it

JCL; I can only ask why?

Why would you start early? There is no point.

Maybe I am reading something wrong ..

I read what you say ; that it suits you. Fair enough. But all it does is screw others over.

Maybe I am unusual ; in that i work my hours (never cheat on them) and at the moment will not do any overtime .

[hampshireman]

JCL; I can only ask why?

Why would you start early? There is no point.

Maybe I am reading something wrong ..

I read what you say ; that it suits you. Fair enough. But all it does is screw others over.

Maybe I am unusual ; in that i work my hours (never cheat on them) and at the moment will not do any overtime .

Here`s the deal. At my old office where I worked for 12 years, I started on time, staff of around 500, maybe 10 guys started early. No problems with that

My new office however, 60 staff roughyl, 95% start early, some upwards of 1hr30. I used to go in on time there too, and wasnt too bad when we had a big number of FT staff, everyone on IPS, out early, I was with everyone else leaving at the same time.

Then they started this nonsense of 1 guy prepping 2 duties, whilst the rest do IPS, and we`d get off IPS and these jokers would be bagging up. Again at first it wasnt an issue, as the majority where out with me, despite the early flyers darting off. Over the years however the FT staff have been culled, by around 300%, add to that PnL with a FT guy prepping 2 duties and a PT guy joining him about 9am. This left 3-4 of us doing ALL the IPS, we get off IPS and people are going out, and we are maybe an 30mins behind the entire office, and theyve been citting round having toast and tea for an hour to boot. Of the 3-4 of us who do the IPS ,2 are clueless morons who stay out till 4pm, well used too, until the manager started getting their rounds prepped by spare guys, or PnL who had nearly bagged up.

This leaves me coming off IPS ,to an empty frame, with the entire office either bagging up, doing redirects, or just on the last bits and bobs. So I started coming in 15 mins early just to get my mech trays in. I started this when my hours changed and clashed with the time my wife gets up for work, so I either got up 15 mins early than I needed to, or 15 mins laters and risk being late. I only live 2 mins from my office. Im naturaly quick, walker, prepper, etc, and I tried going it alone one xmas, working to rule, and I got out 2 hrs after everyone, got treated like scum and all I got away with was 1 row taken off me daily, I was getting home 2 hrs later than normal, for the sake of a row off.

As it now, no one at my office works their hours, they prob do if you take into account no breaks, starting early etc but as a finishing time, we are paid till 245 and the vast majority are done for 145-200. Me personaly, I can get done at 1 most days, so I get 1hr30 at home on my own before I go to school, so it suits me, just takes the pressure off. If I dragged my feet and took my time id probably finish on my time, so theres no real point. We`ve lost so many staff over trivial things, it just isnt worth the risk to stand up ALONE. If things change regarding round size, lapsing, start times or whatever, once its not worth my while OR the majority start on time, I wont hesitate to work to rule.

Hope this explains a little

JCL;

It does explain a little and reading your previous posts was what I thought.

It sounds like you have a terrble office ; so you have my sympathy in the extreme.

But , what the real problem is ; is that you have no Managers managing.