Is there any point in a part timer being a member of CWU?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Just what legal cover are you supposed to get??

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[Mr Whizz]

I'm going to continue paying £2 per week to CWU for the time being.... but my gut feeling is that it is a waste of money for part timers with no rights.

[whatamess!!]

Royal mail bring people in on s**t contracts, not cwu's fault. Cwu have negotiated a new agreement which will potentially help in you in getting a permanent contract with greater hours. Being in the cwu is most probably the best you can be, you have rights just like everyone else. One of your best rights is being able to be part of a trade union, who should stick together through thick and thin for the benefit of all. A lot of people complain on here about cwu, and they have there faults, but what do some contribute to change matters?

[fishtank]

A lot of people complain on here about cwu, and they have there faults, but what do some contribute to change matters?

Non sequitur.
Invalid Argument.
Straw Man.
Informal fallacy.
Aunt Sally.

I've heard this dull attempt at an argument so many times now it's like a dentist's drill or chalk on a blackboard.
It makes no sense at all.
The logic of your argument would be that a member pays for representation but if that representation is poor they must somehow enter the organisation and affect some kind of change in policy in order to receive the representation they presumed they were entitled to as advertised by the organisation at point of sale.
It also presumes that there are no artificial barriers to either entering the organisation or affecting change.
It also presumes that the member has time to affect this change.
It also assumes that the organisation welcomes change.

The argument is a smokescreen first thrown out by those who realise there is no real argument to justify poor representation and then parroted by those that believe the best way to protect the union is to silence or deflect any criticism,no matter how justified it is.

It is a self defeating suicidal race to extinction by the union because it's blatantly obvious to anyone that a member faced with poor representation and being told to put up or shut up will in 99% of cases shut up and by shut up i mean either become apathetic and hostile towards the union and see it as only an insurance policy.....or simply leave.

[kingofmcr]

I joined CWU on my first day and was just curious what part timers are actually getting for their money.

Thanks for the responses.

P.S. clashcityrocker - Love the screen name!

the only benefit i got from the CWU as a part timer for 4 years ..was the negotiating of the wonderful D2D agreement ..the joy as a floater ,not having to do them before .then suddenly having to do up 6 d2ds..for the amazing sum of £12 a week .some days i could hardly lift my bag ..what a union ...it took them 2 weeks hard negotiating to reach that deal ...and other deals ...wonder if they actually thought about what they were doing and what the consequences would be for there members .i some how think not ..giving a vote to everyone on something that would affect mainly postmen and women out on walks was a disaster ..the rest getting the d2d money for nothing ..of course they are going to vote yes ..who would not

[Mr Whizz]

I think there is a HUGE divide between part timers and full timers.

Would the full timers go on strike to give the part timers a better deal? I don't think so.

[DB1100]

I joined CWU on my first day and was just curious what part timers are actually getting for their money.

Thanks for the responses.

P.S. clashcityrocker - Love the screen name!

the only benefit i got from the CWU as a part timer for 4 years ..was the negotiating of the wonderful D2D agreement ..the joy as a floater ,not having to do them before .then suddenly having to do up 6 d2ds..for the amazing sum of £12 a week .some days i could hardly lift my bag ..what a union ...it took them 2 weeks hard negotiating to reach that deal ...and other deals ...wonder if they actually thought about what they were doing and what the consequences would be for there members .i some how think not ..giving a vote to everyone on something that would affect mainly postmen and women out on walks was a disaster ..the rest getting the d2d money for nothing ..of course they are going to vote yes ..who would not

Also kingofmcr when it comes to park and loop part timers fare even worse with the d2d's because the part timers get the walking duties and the full timers get the driving part of the team,so the walker gets more houses to deliver to than the driver who gets more d2d money than the part timer.

[clashcityrocker]

Nobody gets any D2D money.

[CORTINA]

Reported on BBC Newnight ... the current levels of part time workers is at an all time record and still rising as the change from full time working is being replaced with cheaper costs of part time workers to companies taking this route of employing new workers..

That said ... being a part time worker now should not affect your rights in being a union member... wether you wish to join is your choice...

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I think there is a HUGE divide between part timers and full timers.

Would the full timers go on strike to give the part timers a better deal? I don't think so.

A better deal for whom.

Royal Mail are the ones that come up with the contracts.

The Union then have a decision. Do they try to make agreements which are fair based on hours, or on the work done for beyond the basic pay.

If they base it on hours part timers think they are done over on the Delivery supplement because they deliver the same amount of D2Ds. However they work less hours and end up being paid less on the supplement or any bonuses.

Now if they based it on anything but hours would it be fair for a 25 hr contract to get the same Christmas Bonus even if they only work their hours. Would if be fair for everyone to get paid £21 delivery supplement as long as they did some delivery work in their hours - even if its Saturday only.

Neither system is completely fair - complete fairness is impossible - but I honestly believe that a system based on hours is the fairest available, otherwise people would be getting paid more per hour than others.

Of course others believe that continuing to be paid for each D2D delivered was a fairer system (and in a way it was), but proponents of this system seem to disregard that Royal Mail were going to remove the payment regardless when they moved it into measured workload and that Full Timers not only gave up this payment like their part time colleagues, but in most cases they also gave up £12 early shift allowance as well. (so £42 for a FT to get £21 - against a PT giving up £30 to get £14) - In me estimation the pain was shared equally.

Don't get me wrong the BT2010 deal was a bad deal - I said so at the time, and the Union could have negotiated a better deal if they had listened to colleagues on the ground, or had more current experience, but this refrain that a certain section of the membership got a better deal is false and damaging position and one which we should move on from, it helps no one except those that seek to divide the membership with internal conflict.

[whatamess!!]

I joined CWU on my first day and was just curious what part timers are actually getting for their money.

Thanks for the responses.

P.S. clashcityrocker - Love the screen name!

the only benefit i got from the CWU as a part timer for 4 years ..was the negotiating of the wonderful D2D agreement ..the joy as a floater ,not having to do them before .then suddenly having to do up 6 d2ds..for the amazing sum of £12 a week .some days i could hardly lift my bag ..what a union ...it took them 2 weeks hard negotiating to reach that deal ...and other deals ...wonder if they actually thought about what they were doing and what the consequences would be for there members .i some how think not ..giving a vote to everyone on something that would affect mainly postmen and women out on walks was a disaster ..the rest getting the d2d money for nothing ..of course they are going to vote yes ..who would not

Bags have weight limits, if you choose to ignore them thats your fault, trolleys are now mandatory! Most carry overweight bags as to try and finish early, which is one of the biggest problems for most offices. The d2d are nothing to do with the
£12, you only have to work the hours your paid. The rest don't get d2d money! Processing and distribution get there own supplement.

[whatamess!!]

Why do members become reps? It's usually for change, they may see things going on which they are not happy with, they do there best to make things better. All my opinion was a lot of people come on here moaning about CWU but have they ever done anything to change branch policy etc. if some put there effort into making change and helping the so called useless reps perhaps we would all be in a better place. You would thing the cwu made all the decisions in ROyal mail, why don't some throw their negative attitude towards royal mail. Usually negotiation start at a position and you try to get the best for the members, What do members thing the starting position on moving d2d into workload was? I know it was into workload with no payment! Due to declining mail volumes

A lot of people complain on here about cwu, and they have there faults, but what do some contribute to change matters?

Non sequitur.
Invalid Argument.
Straw Man.
Informal fallacy.
Aunt Sally.

I've heard this dull attempt at an argument so many times now it's like a dentist's drill or chalk on a blackboard.
It makes no sense at all.
The logic of your argument would be that a member pays for representation but if that representation is poor they must somehow enter the organisation and affect some kind of change in policy in order to receive the representation they presumed they were entitled to as advertised by the organisation at point of sale.
It also presumes that there are no artificial barriers to either entering the organisation or affecting change.
It also presumes that the member has time to affect this change.
It also assumes that the organisation welcomes change.

The argument is a smokescreen first thrown out by those who realise there is no real argument to justify poor representation and then parroted by those that believe the best way to protect the union is to silence or deflect any criticism,no matter how justified it is.

It is a self defeating suicidal race to extinction by the union because it's blatantly obvious to anyone that a member faced with poor representation and being told to put up or shut up will in 99% of cases shut up and by shut up i mean either become apathetic and hostile towards the union and see it as only an insurance policy.....or simply leave.

[fishtank]

Most carry overweight bags as to try and finish early, which is one of the biggest problems for most offices.

Do we know that as fact or is it just another parroted statement?
Have we done any surveys?

Considering the large amount of bullying and harassment that has been shown to be prevalent and widespread in delivery offices isn't it possible a large number of members are being pressured into carrying overweight bags just to complete?

[fishtank]

What do members thing the starting position on moving d2d into workload was? I know it was into workload with no payment! Due to declining mail volumes

No you don't.
Someone told you that and you believed them but did you stop to think why they told you that or indeed why whoever told them did so.

The starting position in negotiations is always the status quo,any deviation from that either has to be negotiated or comes with consequences.
The "into workload" was a red herring,D2D was always in workload it just wasn't measured and measuring or not measuring workload means nothing to an OPG as long as the workload exists.
What do you think the consequences would have been had Royal Mail simply removed the payment for D2D and why didn't they?

[whatamess!!]

Most carry overweight bags as to try and finish early, which is one of the biggest problems for most offices.

Do we know that as fact or is it just another parroted statement?
Have we done any surveys?

Considering the large amount of bullying and harassment that has been shown to be prevalent and widespread in delivery offices isn't it possible a large number of members are being pressured into carrying overweight bags just to complete?

I would say look in your office and what do you think? No doubt some members are struggling with workload but no doubt some do it because they want to make time. It has been debated on here for long enough on members coming in early, not having breaks etc etc do you think members do this because they feel bullied? Mo opinion in most cases no, it's what there used to and if they don't make time they can't except it. I have had a member come to me, f this f that because he worked till 13.25, on how he had to take all his walk, the manager wouldn't assist him he had 4 lots of d2d etc, when he calmed down and we discussed his problems further, he was due off at 13 .35, it came down to the fact that he only made 10 mins was what upset him.