job sercurity 2013

[DirtyHarry]

The CWU will take care of us, in it's own unique way, of that, I have no doubt whatsoever.

[dvbuk55]

The CWU will take care of us, in it's own unique way, of that, I have no doubt whatsoever.

No need to be nervous dh.........provided of course you have the ky delivered in bulk..........have you any left from the BT2010?

[DirtyHarry]

Whatever job your in, we are all only one week away from the dole

Exactly.
Unbelievably, something like 8/10 people agree with scrapping the welfare state. Britain, whatever happened to your common sense?

[DirtyHarry]

No need to be nervous dh.........provided of course you have the ky delivered in bulk..........have you any left from the BT2010?

We have it stockpiled at our place.

[dvbuk55]

No need to be nervous dh.........provided of course you have the ky delivered in bulk..........have you any left from the BT2010?

We have it stockpiled at our place.

Now that is forward thinking dh

[Martin Walsh]

For a union which takes so much criticism from a selective few on this site out of the 130 000 members in the Royal Mail ,we have not a bad track record defeated privitisation 3 times and there is still a lot of things which both the Government have to rely on prior to selling us again which won't happen till possibly 2014.

The RMT , Aself , GMB , Unite have all long seen their industries privitiased.

We have still got good terms and conditions , pay has gone up faster in the last decade then in any decade in the last 60 years including during the so called glorious 60s. When I first joined Royal Mail low pay and long hours due to having to top up your low pay with overtime. The senior bods back then in the early 80s were saying the job was done and finished.

We still have paid meal reliefs, very few industries now have this and for many they ignore the meal relief altogether. Think about this 40 minutes per day is the average. So your working week is 36 hours 20 mins.

You get paid leave , plus paid sick leave including protection of allowances for two months and full protection of the delivery suppllement for the full sick leave quota.

There are 77 other allownances people get paid for ranging from fork lift to leadership allowance.

Royal Mail still pay out millions in reserved right payments for way forward ex PHG and driving allowance along with ex PBS and ICS bonuses.

We have a attendance procedure which whilst not per perfect and does need the improvement but it's a procedure that Not many get sacked on per year.

We have an IR framework which if used properly at all levels rivals any in the trade union movement.

Whilst like all industries we no longer have a final salary , all service before 2008 will be calculated on your final salary when you retire and the care scheme is a good scheme and has performed well since 2008 better than a final salary would have done. The Union needs to sort out the scheme which was introduced from 2008 for new starters as it is a poor scheme.

In additon to this. We have agreements which if they were used properly allows for local negotiation on all aspects of revisons and this is unique in the trade union movement the problem is that local reps in certain areas do not either have the support or the experience to stop management from introducing things which are not contained within the BT agreement or that ultimately it is a Negotations on the outputs and not that the output of the tools is binding.

So this year is going to be a differcult year for us all, in my own opinion no one else's I believe we are going to be in a dispute later this years , over the fact that Royal Mail won't do anything about the bullying , that privitisation will threaten pensions and terms and conditions and that Royal Mail will want a further upper decile revison.

So I dare say that people will have to decide who they believe are going to protect them going forward , the CWU or Royal Mail there. Really is no other choice. Sure the CWU deserve criticism but if you criticise you also have to look at what you are or have done to contribute to things ie are you someone who has cut thr job up in the past or even now, do you chase time, did you load your own car up with work cause it could not fit on your bike , did you always work though your break, did you return early to your office flaunting the fact that you finished early in the days before absorption. Did you pass your door to door to another person prior to BT 2010 or worse still not deliver them an all , or never give any to. A RDC. Did you prove that you could do a Saturday delivery quicker then you could a Monday to Friday delivery in less time.

[dvbuk55]

So what are you saying dingo - in the last ten years the union has done well - but lets take it over the last three years and will you be able to say the same in another 7 years. The union needs a shake up dingo and that's the truth but is it better to have a union, of course it is, but does that mean we have to agree to everything the union feels is in the members best interest - even though it clearly is not. Decisions are being made by people who are way out of touch with the shop floor, clearly obvious from some of the statements you make - "chasing time" was an agreed procedure when job and finish came about, using cars - also agreed by RM instituting an insurance - though totally inadequate - what did the union do about it? There is far too much blame laid at the members door for adherence to agreements when there is no leadership from the top, middle and even bottom.

[fishtank]

We need to take stock of where we are and where we are heading dingo,not where we could have been without a union.
We need to move on from arguing about where we might have been without a a union because that's a pointless argument since the postal members have paid somewhere in the region of £200million in the last 10 years to be where we are now.

Where is the union exactly and where is it heading?

Industrially the CWU in Royal Mail has relatively high density and good overall numbers but that density decreases faster than redundancy levels because senior member of staff take redundancy and these are normally union members.
We are struggling to recruit new members of staff for various reasons,some our fault,some more to do with social/economic changes but we have to face the fact that our density and therefore our power base is diminishing.
The mixed messages being sent out by various National Officers over seats on the board and whether Modernisation has been successful has added to the feeling amongst members that the union is playing both sides,some are even questioning who is driving this proposed boycott of DSA...CWU or Royal Mail?

Financially the union is in a bad place and this will only get worse as long as branch and headquarters spending is allowed to continue unchecked.The ongoing issues with HMRC are placing the whole union at risk,a situation that should never have been allowed to arise.
If somewhere like Alvescot is allowed to be sold to cover the tax liabilities of Branch Honoraria payments it will be a low point in the financial management of this union.


Where are the members?

Despite the fact that basic pay increased significantly between 2000 and 2007,take home pay and earning opportunity have remained relatively flat although as you point out the number of hours you have to work has decreased,this has had a far more significant affect in processing where the hours are fixed than delivery where most members will argue that,less hours or not they are working far harder for their money.Overall i don't think the members have a great deal to complain about with regards to pay which is reflected in the fact that they don't usually complain about pay.

The conditions they are now asked to work under especially in delivery are a different matter.
Higson's plan for delivery is an abject failure,that's not directly the CWU's fault but the failure to spot the flaws in the delivery aspects of BT2010 and the failure to react immediately to protect members certainly is.
The over reliance on the IR Framework by units and branches to flag up problems and in some cases even the abuse of the framework to hide problems has left members feeling isolated and disengaged.
What has become clear through the Bullying & Harassment Survey is that some of our Branches have become too entrenched in mailcentres and some of our Area Delivery Reps do not spend enough time in delivery.

Where we are now is in a decently paid job with an aggressive employer heading towards probable privatisation and all the problems that may bring with an apparently rudderless,financially vulnerable union which has an ineffective branch structure and apathetic membership.
All of those things can be fixed but it requires an acceptance that the problems exist and real leadership to make the hard decisions required to address them.

[dvbuk55]

Where we are now is in a decently paid job with an aggressive employer heading towards probable privatisation and all the problems that may bring with an apparently rudderless,financially vulnerable union which has an ineffective branch structure and apathetic membership.
All of those things can be fixed but it requires an acceptance that the problems exist and real leadership to make the hard decisions required to address them.

That is a pretty accurate statement as to where we stand at the moment, the problem is of course that the hierarchy, Div/Area and Branch aren't at all for change - except when it comes to the members, then they are all for it. You hear the platitudes of the state of the business and how we need to accept change so what we end up with is the CWU in an appeasement pact with Royal Mail in order to preserve recognition. So clearly highlighted with the recent attack on DSA, which is quite obviously driven by RM The same problems do not seem to be recognised with the organisation of the CWU and I certainly do not see any change in the near future.

The problems that beset the organisation are blatantly obvious to most people and it's time that those who profit from the members financial support got a conscience. Honorarium anyone? Don't worry about the tax..............................

[heapsy]

In additon to this. We have agreements which if they were used properly allows for local negotiation on all aspects of revisons and this is unique in the trade union movement the problem is that local reps in certain areas do not either have the support or the experience to stop management from introducing things which are not contained within the BT agreement or that ultimately it is a Negotations on the outputs and not that the output of the tools is binding.

Agreements are one thing but how about sticking to them?
When we had our revision, a rep was sent by branch, because we didn't have our own. Instead of getting the one in four weekends, or any other combination that many on here seem to be getting, we got nothing. HE decided that it was in our best interests that we stayed as we were. So, what IS the point of negotiating national agreements on change and modernisation with reps that don't even follow the agreement?

[fmrPOSTIE]

Not sure why people are banging on about privatisation. Which investor is generally interested in Royal Mail? Moya doesn't know of any!

[dvbuk55]

Not sure why people are banging on about privatisation. Which investor is generally interested in Royal Mail? Moya doesn't know of any!

There's privatisation and privatisation.

[maisymoo04]

and theres floatation al have a bit ov that i think

[mr deeds]

dont think there's much fight left in the membership since we were sold out last time......rm keep hitting us with the ressesion stick...plenty of people to fill your jobs...etc....most of the new starters have no balls because they have come from an even sh*ter job.....i think we will end up with a mon-fri job loads of lay off's..in delivery all floaters bye bye...if standard mail gets in (2 day service) bye bye loads in mc......it's not looking good boys but it used to be a nice ride.... :ncfo :vcfo :dcfo


oh and also add to this...i am a rep and when you go to area they are not interested in any problems in your office ...just brush it under the carpet.....the union needs to get a set of balls...we seem to be re-active rather than pro-active....rm will just spin along the bullyboy talks with rm on on on and on until fA happens and then the union will spit there dummy out and go back for more on and on and on talks...while the grass roots get shafted...simples

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Not sure why people are banging on about privatisation. Which investor is generally interested in Royal Mail? Moya doesn't know of any!

CVC - Asset Strippers supreme - have been in the background on every previous attempt. Wouldn't be surprised if they are still sniffing around.