Does seniority count for anything nowadays?

[grip lomax]

i have never understood how being somewhere longer makes you better and more able , plus it must be an isum as in ageisum or sexisum

[whitemoor66]

i have never understood how being somewhere longer makes you better and more able , plus it must be an isum as in ageisum or sexisum

It might even be an ism as well!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

i have never understood how being somewhere longer makes you better and more able , plus it must be an isum as in ageisum or sexisum

It might even be an ism as well!

Loyalism -

It can't be sexist as both females and males earn seniority at the same rate.

It can't be ageism because age is not taken into account directly, only by virtue of the linear approach to ageing has it any bearing. For instance if there is a 30 year old who has 12 years seniority and a 50 year old with 6 years - how can it be ageist.

As to being somewhere longer making you better and more able, that might be a well founded argument against seniority in a job where different positions have different skills and tasks, but in a job as a post person in deliveries when the basic skill set (with driving being the only extra skill) for each job is exactly the same - delivering mail then its a spurious one.

Actually even in a job that has many different skill sets and tasks, you generally cant progress till you have proved yourself capable of the job you were employed to do, by default thats a form of seniority isn't it.

I don't think Seniority is a completely fair system it has many faults, and P&L shows that, however, until the Management style of RM is made more professional and until it earns the respect of the people it manages, I can't see any other system that could replace it and remain fair and above reproach. Anyone willing to make a suggestion as to what would or should.

[grip lomax]

how about poeple best sutied for each round applying for the rounds , holidays on a first appled gets the positon or in a normal working invorment the magenment select the staffing (yes i know sorry ) the system was very much abused as in the more senior guys would select hoildays they didnt need in school hoildays just to swap with there mates later !! leaving folks futher down and with no mates futher along with no chance of any time off with there familys thankfully this is no longer the case as a much fairer system is now in place much to the dismay of the old guard

[fishtank]

It can't be sexist as both females and males earn seniority at the same rate.

It can't be ageism because age is not taken into account directly, only by virtue of the linear approach to ageing has it any bearing. For instance if there is a 30 year old who has 12 years seniority and a 50 year old with 6 years - how can it be ageism.

You have to be careful with both of those.
If it can be shown that women as a group have less seniority because generally they are the primary carer and therefore are more likely to take a career break then a case can be put forward for sex discrimination,especially if seniority is linked to earning potential and/or career progression.

In the case of age discrimination obviously if you're 30 years old you can't have 30 years seniority so there is always some liability there but the age discrimination legislation was set up more to protect older members of staff rather than the other way around so on length of service it's quite vague.
The Equality Act limits the measure of "experience" to 5 years after which the business must show that any benefits given to staff linked to length of service must have a real and measurable benefit to the business.
I'm not sure Royal Mail could fulfil this obligation in many cases.
As with everything in law it's far more fluid than people believe and only takes a test case to tip things one way or the other.

[clashcityrocker]

Perhaps we should do away with seniority and leave everything to the rep's discretion?

[fishtank]

Perhaps we should do away with seniority and leave everything to the rep's discretion?

I think we should have a big duty selection tombola at the signing in desk and a bingo caller.
It would make monday mornings much more interesting.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Perhaps we should do away with seniority and leave everything to the rep's discretion?

I think we should have a big duty selection tombola at the signing in desk and a bingo caller.
It would make monday mornings much more interesting.

14, 14,

[dvbuk55]

Perhaps we should do away with seniority and leave everything to the rep's discretion?

I think we should have a big duty selection tombola at the signing in desk and a bingo caller.
It would make monday mornings much more interesting.

Why restrict it to Monday, why not every day AND in the tombola you also have the days off.............just imagine the deep joy if you got lucky every day for a week

[CharlesSpooner]

how about poeple best sutied for each round applying for the rounds , holidays on a first appled gets the positon or in a normal working invorment the magenment select the staffing (yes i know sorry ) the system was very much abused as in the more senior guys would select hoildays they didnt need in school hoildays just to swap with there mates later !! leaving folks futher down and with no mates futher along with no chance of any time off with there familys thankfully this is no longer the case as a much fairer system is now in place much to the dismay of the old guard

How is someone best suited to a round? If someone's 6ft5, built like the proverbial and cage fights on the side then he should get stuck on a round on the roughest estate in the office because he's "best suited"? And someone who's got a holiday home in Provence and comes out in hives at the mention of Lidl should go on the nice middle class development? Since all delivery duties are supposed to be equal (yes I know, supposed to be equal ) then there isn't really a "best suited".

I do think there should be an application process and perhaps a reintroduction of some form of examination for certain duties though such as some of the former PHG work, DIM assist and the like which can have an impact on the overall running of the office - under the current method it just seems to attract loafers who can't be arsed with a delivery. Especially loafers who get the coffees in for the DIM.

And as for annual leave being decided 1st come, 1st served that would require all holiday forms being handed out at exactly the same time to all members of staff to even begin to be fair - if you're ill, on your day off or actually on annual leave at the time you'd be stuck.

Seniority isn't perfect but there isn't really, to my (admittedly limited ) knowledge, a fairer system - do your time and get your rewards.

[CharlesSpooner]

Why restrict it to Monday, why not every day AND in the tombola you also have the days off.............just imagine the deep joy if you got lucky every day for a week

Even better if you were allowed to book an hours OT for turning up for the draw on what became your day off

[Martin Walsh]

On a serious note seniority is still the fairest way of selecting duties.

A few years ago Royal Mail put proposals on how they intended to replace seniority. These included a yearly appraisal which sick leave , late attendance , conduct , mis deliveries , your appearance , whether you were presentable and whether your face fitted. Duties would be selected by the manager based on the above and duties to firms and high profile customers would be selected on if your face fitted and you were presntable.

Now many people moan about seniority but I would say that given the other options management want to use seniority is still the best and fairest method for selecting duties which have require the same skill level.

be careful what you wish for !

[dvbuk55]

Well dingo I can honestly say if it went on appraisal appearance etc..............I will NOT be cleaning the bogs

[fishtank]

Well dingo I can honestly say if it went on appraisal appearance etc..............I will NOT be cleaning the bogs

I would love to be appraised on appearance by a Dom who thinks that a purple shirt at least two X's too small and a green tie is presentable.
Most managers appear to shop on charity street and dress in the dark.

[Stormproof]

Well dingo I can honestly say if it went on appraisal appearance etc..............I will NOT be cleaning the bogs

I would love to be appraised on appearance by a Dom who thinks that a purple shirt at least two X's too small and a green tie is presentable.
Most managers appear to shop on charity street and dress in the dark.

Must be part of the job description FT. The man from 'George' wardrobe We've a new LM who is expanding rapidly, I've asked when are the safety glasses going to be issued as there is a potential hazard of one/some of his buttons exploding and having someones eye out.