Park and Loop...Lapsing ?

[Toby Tyke]

Started our collapsing a couple of weeks ago.
This week it was doubled in size due to idiots running round and going back in early.
Been a constant battle with the managers all week.
Today we had our DOM confronting everyone who would not do it.He was counting all the gaps on the fittings and demanding people take extra.
Most people are being bullied to hell with 2 or 3 managers in your face when you say no.
Unless you are prepared to stand your ground and argue it out (or just point blank refuse) you are going to get s**t on.
No union rep to speak of so you are on your own.
Been threatend already this week for refusing to work free overtime.
Where does it all end.
Job Center ?

[chills22]

re grimsby cleethorpes office

we are in a strange position over here we have our machines in place working well,half the office is on park and loop,half on normal delivery methods.

last couple of weeks they have lapsed duties for half the office,but not the other. now they have just used 1 of the 2 sorting machines to save money. BRING IT BACK .1day when the mail was heavy me and my partner brought 1 and a half rounds back. WHATS IT GOING TO BE LIKE WHEN THE KIDS GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND THE MAIL PICKS UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! CHAOS

[drokk54]

--------- How many days a week do u have to take Callapsed duties?

We Take SIX DAYS.............. Yes, SATURDAYS included................ and when does this end?

Last time it started it took 2-3 years....... (minus 2 weeks for christmas)............ it did not just last for summer............

[taurus88]

It ends when the office is able to demonstrate as a collective that there is no opportunity for lapsing. Whether mail is high or low, your walk is big or small, there is no point chasing time. I can make three hours work last four hours if necessary, it's not that difficult. But there are those who seemingly would rather lapse, and work half an hour unpaid, purely for the sake of finishing 'earlier'. Then there are those who are too scared to stand up for themselves. Lapsing is a reality for many of us, but not all of us. I see it on this board a lot, 'it's not fair', when people do not lapse. Perhaps they're more intelligent than the complainers. They're not chasing time. They ensure they have no capacity to lapse. They don't attack their own job the moment they get into work. Face it, if you're lapsing, you're threatening somebody's job.

[hans solo]

were to have our start times changed shortly 7am starts i think because of new css machines .
not on p+loopy yet , no trollies, etc etc no 1 in 4 sats off,no 39hr week no innovative duty spasns or times
they still come in early and work for free take out lapsing run out door laughing and mocking posties who do job properly
all for sake of finishing 1/2 to hour early no breaks either.
how to stop it thought you were meant to work to time i do always
thought you were ment to clear frame no missorts etc
thought you werent to leave office early especially if missorts not cleared.
road im going down nowif they finish early i finish early regardless of early starts not my fault they allow this
if mail left in frames because of earlly runners fcuk them i will constantly report missorts not being picked up and failing quality
if they are allowed to leave office early im going to leave office same time as them whats different not my fault they let this happen going to be fun on sats when everyone wants their footy and we dont finish till 3
well done all early work for free im alright jacks you brought this on yourselves

[dave7634]

hang on .... with an indoor revision sorting out IPS and prepping and outdoor revision sorting out delivery how can lapsing occur ?

Stupidity.
Bad practice.
Management bullying.
Poor union organisation.
Quiet tuesdays.
Take your pick....

See jessicarabbit's post re: reason. If you have the capacity then you're fooked; if not then tell em. Not rocket science. If you have people not using their trolleys once your Delivery Methods is deployed and then using the time they've saved for 'job n off' then you can't argue when the manager see's the individual skipping through the door 20-30 minutes early, smile on faces, can you? Idiots give them the bullets; managers then fire them back at you!

I've argued the cases for individuals to say they haven't got spare time only to then see them finishing 30 minutes before their time AFTER even having had their meal reliefs! Manager then looks at me and smirks. I could shoot them myself sometimes believe me.

[Big Daz]

--------- How many days a week do u have to take Callapsed duties?

We Take SIX DAYS.............. Yes, SATURDAYS included................ and when does this end?

Last time it started it took 2-3 years....... (minus 2 weeks for christmas)............ it did not just last for summer............

It is a common ,misconception that lapsing is summer only.

What should happen is in Summer when mail is quieter you have more people on leave than there are Annual Leave reserves, this then leaves a duty/duties uncovered. To cover this you absorb the uncovered work. At the end of the summer period the leave slots drop down to normal level and the duty goes back to normal.

What should happen when there is sick leave is that the cost of covering the sick leave is reduced, so you might absorb the indoor work and overtime the outdoor work or absorb both. Rep and DOM should discuss in weekly resource meetings and on the day when somebody rings in sick.

[offmetrolley]

Well its been the first week off loop the loop as i call it and yes you still have the loonies coming in early and running round to get finished, then others like me, who have done the sorting, then the prep, had my break, ended up 2 hours over my time, i dont mind the first week or two but i wont keep it up, and i know a lot of others wont, plus what is going to happen when, the traffic goes up, the nights draw in quicker i dont think il be walking round with my trolley in the cold november rain....

[welshy808]

--------- How many days a week do u have to take Callapsed duties?

We Take SIX DAYS.............. Yes, SATURDAYS included................ and when does this end?

Last time it started it took 2-3 years....... (minus 2 weeks for christmas)............ it did not just last for summer............

It is a common ,misconception that lapsing is summer only.

What should happen is in Summer when mail is quieter you have more people on leave than there are Annual Leave reserves, this then leaves a duty/duties uncovered. To cover this you absorb the uncovered work. At the end of the summer period the leave slots drop down to normal level and the duty goes back to normal.

What should happen when there is sick leave is that the cost of covering the sick leave is reduced, so you might absorb the indoor work and overtime the outdoor work or absorb both. Rep and DOM should discuss in weekly resource meetings and on the day when somebody rings in sick.

Pay and Modernisation Phase 2 and 3 had set periods for Lapsing.
Transformation 2010 and Beyond "reaffirms the 2007 Pay and Modernisation Agreement"
I worry about your post Daz. Sometimes you sound more like a manager than a rep.
Sorry but it had to be said.

[Big Daz]

Set periods for lapsing, phase 2 is correct as indicated in my post where I said the leave slots and duties should go back to normal at the end of the summer.

Set period for phase 3, sorry not with you on that one, cant say I recall seeing that in the annex for D.O's will double check though.

As for sounding like a manager I've stated factual reality. Nothing more nothing less.

To provide sensible options for the business to take advantage of opportunities to increase efficiency when workload declines, or there are absences.


To jointly identify genuine opportunities to absorb outdoor and/OR indoor workload where time exists within approved attendance times/normal paid work hours.

Both of the above are from D.O annexe (phase 3 nowt about a set period, sorry to disappoint. Its down to local rep/managers to decide what is and isn't sensible for their D.O that means variations form workplace to workplace.

Good or bad this is reality that I as a rep have to work with, so far no outdoor absorption since our self starter revision as I say no thank you in every WRM.

[Big Daz]

Those D.O's that have had P and L revisions in my branch area the policy is no absorption as there simply wont be time, self starters have been given plenty of guidance and advice from a former ADR who is now the substitute divisional rep.

[dvbuk55]

Those D.O's that have had P and L revisions in my branch area the policy is no absorption as there simply wont be time, self starters have been given plenty of guidance and advice from a former ADR who is now the substitute divisional rep.

That doesn't really make sense. The revisions are based on a model week for traffic and when the traffic falls below that figure then there is "scope" for lapsing and that would be the same for P&L as well.

[fishtank]

Those D.O's that have had P and L revisions in my branch area the policy is no absorption as there simply wont be time, self starters have been given plenty of guidance and advice from a former ADR who is now the substitute divisional rep.

That doesn't really make sense. The revisions are based on a model week for traffic and when the traffic falls below that figure then there is "scope" for lapsing and that would be the same for P&L as well.

It is unfortunately just as ridiculous trying to hold together an across the board policy of no lapsing as it is for Royal Mail to assume an across the board policy of lapsing.
I'm not even sure from a members point of view if it's a sensible policy.
If lapsing does one thing....it discourages bad practice,if you do the job properly under park&loop there is very little scope for lapsing...at any time of year.
However if you have an across the board policy...members will abuse it especially in the summer months...and that will come back to kick us in the nuts again.
We have to really start thinking smarter and use RM's policies to our benefit.

[dvbuk55]

Those D.O's that have had P and L revisions in my branch area the policy is no absorption as there simply wont be time, self starters have been given plenty of guidance and advice from a former ADR who is now the substitute divisional rep.

That doesn't really make sense. The revisions are based on a model week for traffic and when the traffic falls below that figure then there is "scope" for lapsing and that would be the same for P&L as well.

It is unfortunately just as ridiculous trying to hold together an across the board policy of no lapsing as it is for Royal Mail to assume an across the board policy of lapsing.
I'm not even sure from a members point of view if it's a sensible policy.
If lapsing does one thing....it discourages bad practice,if you do the job properly under park&loop there is very little scope for lapsing...at any time of year.
However if you have an across the board policy...members will abuse it especially in the summer months...and that will come back to kick us in the nuts again.
We have to really start thinking smarter and use RM's policies to our benefit.

Well you have highlighted the problem ft. Being smarter is the answer, however it is the old horse and water adage, people have time built into the P&L for the use of LCTs, then promptly don't use them and go back to the 16kg pouches, which in itself is not now part of the revision. No matter how many times they are told to do the job properly they think it will save time to cut corners.

Some reps could well wring their hands and say they get what they deserve.

[Big Daz]

I'm not looking forward to this P and L revision malarkey

Our big office in the cluster has now gone live, the reports filtering into my D/O are not exactly inspiring!

Another D.O in the wider branch area has had its revision pulled as RML cant afford the training hours.

Im not surprised RML went for self starters as they obliviously wanted a quick saving which they would not get from P and L revisions taking a lot longer than envisaged.