The truth behind the London Mail Centre plan

[Judgee]

I thought the unions main selling point on integrating D2Ds was to secure jobs???? Well that worked out well didn't it?

What do the union do about these jobs cuts now.... nothing, there is nothing they can do! Because when the union had the management by the balls over the last strikes, they sold everybody out. Delivery staff got shafted up front, now the indoor workers who were happy to take a pay suppliment for doing nothing and vote yes to the deal are getting the boot for taking the devils shilling. It wasn't a question of who was going to win and lose in the last deal it was simply a question of when people were going to suffer.

The union are a joke and RM management have been laughing at them bumbling around, making a mess!

Will any members support futher strike action? Probably not, when someone punches you in the face you don't stand up and ask them to punch you again!

[hans solo]

As a member from the West of Scotland I am well aware of the lack of sympathy with London, for whatever reason, but Dingo is right. The issue is not the closure of the Mail Centres, as others have said MC's have closed with shamefully little fight from the CWU nationally. The issue is compulsory redundancy. EVR, the traditional method of dealing with 'surplus staff' provides enhanced payments. Compulsory redundancy, as I understand it, provides only the legal minimum payment.

If RM enforce this in the London area, we will all be next.

Hopefully the position will be clearer after the national briefing, but this is no time to give up the fight.

PS I was against the business transformation agreement.

you may well have been against the 2010 agreement but you still advised your members to accept it as there was no alternative rem the meeting well

[POSTMAN]

What other MC's have had CR forced on them?
What CWU grade colleages have had CR forced on them?

Judging by London figures,it will happen,so as others have said if it starts,how will it be stopped once it gets going.
Don't want to go into the,it's a London thing and london have grown a pair speech.
But what exactly do some of you want to be done?

[BT2010]

what can be done PM?

i would be at the gate now opposing any such job losses if thats whats required.

problem being, (in our DO at least) turn out would be around 30% at a guess and we have usually seen around 90% out.

as i see it all we can do is wait and see what comes out of HQ in the next couple of weeks, in all fairness the whole thing has to come to a head sooner rather than later and with RM seemingly rewriting the rules, the CWU is the only voice any of us will have round that boardroom table.

so i say lets stick together and back the union.

[belle smith]

Dingo,

We may often disagree. I don't have a problem with your members though, as it happens i don't have a problem with you either. And your right if RM are forcing compulsery redundancey on them you's have to ballot for strike action, if you were not advocating that then it would be a deraliction of duty.

BUT

Your asking us to go out on strike to uphold an agreement i consider to be a sell out. I voted for and took strike action not so long ago because RM were not hounering agreements and would not engage with the union on new agreements.
The agreements i was concerned about were the agreement on maximum delivery spans and the unagreed use of IWT and pegasus
The outcome was that the union agreed that there should now be no maximum delivery span and that we should agree to the use of IWT and pegasus blindly, as far as i can see the agreed pegasus and IWT are every bit as bad as the unagreed versions that RM were using before.
on top of that we also got a cut in take home pay.

Since then, every one of the all singing all danceing WSM delivery method revisions have been a disaster.
Now if we are balloted for strike action and go out on strike will the senior union officials make an issue of this say that these changes were unacceptable and that our members in delivery can't perform to the level set by IWT and pegasus. Will they say delivery spans are being made to big and fatigue is clearly not being taken into account and that many of our members are not phisically able to do what is being expected of them, that for some of our members these revisions are tantamount to constructive dismissal.
NO! you's wont.
Instead, in all likelyhood the senior officials in our union will make a virtue out of there willingness to embrace this sort of change.

Now this may seem like a cheap shot but when was the last time you or anyone on the PEC or Billy and Dave done a delivery?
With the possible exception one person and i would stress possible all of my Branch officials have been on fulltime duty release since before SDD, they have not done 3hr30min deliveries let alone 3hr30min pegasus deliveries never mind 4hr or 4hr15mins or more pegasus deliveries.
If you's had you wouldn't think the 2010 agreement was so good.

Although i said i don't have any problem with your members and i do agree that your MC members are getting a raw deal, it does seem to me that your delivery members are so far being protected from all of this. How many WSM plus delivery methods revisions have taken place in London so far?
I'm sure it's no more than a stay of exacussion but it's better than nothing.

Clearly from the figuers you show there is not going to be enough room for all the London MC staff in RM's one mail centre plan.

When a Mail centre closes normally anywhere than staff have a choice they either can move with the work to the mail centre where your work is going or if jobs are reducing take VR.

Serious question will they be able to be absorbed into DO's instead of being made redundant?
If the answer is yes they are not being made compulsorly redundant and are no worse off than the rest of us on delivery and i will not be voting to go on strike to protect them! Even if that means breaking the MTSF agreement.

[Tamsky]

As a member from the West of Scotland I am well aware of the lack of sympathy with London, for whatever reason, but Dingo is right. The issue is not the closure of the Mail Centres, as others have said MC's have closed with shamefully little fight from the CWU nationally. The issue is compulsory redundancy. EVR, the traditional method of dealing with 'surplus staff' provides enhanced payments. Compulsory redundancy, as I understand it, provides only the legal minimum payment.

If RM enforce this in the London area, we will all be next.

Hopefully the position will be clearer after the national briefing, but this is no time to give up the fight.

PS I was against the business transformation agreement.

you may well have been against the 2010 agreement but you still advised your members to accept it as there was no alternative rem the meeting well

Like you Hans I had one vote and voted against the agreement. I didn't advise anyone just to accept it. If I was asked at a meeting whether there was a plan B I would have said no since there wasn't a plan B.

[belle smith]

The issue is compulsory redundancy. EVR, the traditional method of dealing with 'surplus staff' provides enhanced payments. Compulsory redundancy, as I understand it, provides only the legal minimum payment.

Is this true?

[SpacePhoenix]

MC closures will affect DOs as well, probably all DOs in an area where a MC has closed will get their work later so all staff at them DOs will start and finish later. Also where DOs get breakdowns (for example - fictional area) EG1-3, EG 4-6, EG 7-9, EG 10-12 say them four selections were all for the same (fictional) DO with a breakdown by the MC for each of them selections. If a new or extended MC has more areas to cover, chances are they won't have room on the frames for such a breakdown so if they are lucky the DO would end up with a EG1-6 and EG7-12 breakdown or more likely they would just get all stuff for their area together with no breakdown.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank we dont always agree but you are a poster I repsect and the answer is no there are no jobs. Royal Mail are using the recieving offices productivity level as the basis of jobs and all the London mail centres are lower in Productiviity. Now Romford , Greenford , Jubbilee and Croydon have all have VR from revisions already. The age profile of London now is the majority are 40 to 50 years of age with 10 to 15 years service. Most will have to find another job and we do believe that many will opt for VR.

Belle again I respect this is not simply about fighting to get Royal Mail to honour an agreement , its about saying regardless of an agreement are the cwu going to standby and let members be made complusory redundant ? I know where I stand on that count and I would fight and try and get the members to support where ever it was happening.

With regards to some of the other posters who have commented and said sod London , well I say is that not whats wrong with the trade union today ! To many people who look after themselves and dont see the union as what it should be united we stand divided we fall.

[teesdale]

Didnt the CWU have to the make the best of the proposals put in front of them end of 2010 and try to get as good a deal for as many people as possible. I think they did protect many more jobs than are going. Royal mail do have to offer you a job elsewhere if your mail centre is closing, be it delivery,driving or another mail centre because of the BTA. Many won't take it, but it would be nice to be offered. In London 600 people will face forced voluntary redundancy. It must be a difficult task dealing with such lying slippery fu**ers as Green and Higgson.

[jimmythepost]

Hi,

I think Delievery staff have to back what dingo is saying, today Mailcentres tomorrow Delivery offices.

64 MC to 32 how many Delivery offices are close by together, Manchester there around 10 bunch up in less than 5 miles radius.

Then there another 10, so once they finished with Mail Centres and RDC, its will be the DO cull.


you can see it coming

jimmy

[dvbuk55]

Well lets let London fight their corner and the rest of us, who have already had the s**t end of the stick, will deal with the problems as and when they arise. As for the productivity issue.........now there's a surprise

[AnotherLimey]

Hi,

I think Delievery staff have to back what dingo is saying, today Mailcentres tomorrow Delivery offices.

64 MC to 32 how many Delivery offices are close by together, Manchester there around 10 bunch up in less than 5 miles radius.

Then there another 10, so once they finished with Mail Centres and RDC, its will be the DO cull.


you can see it coming

jimmy

Hold on a minute was it not MC members that voted this s**t in? It certainly was not the delivery men as we were truly getting shafted, so now the penny has dropped you want our backing?

[clashcityrocker]

Delivery staff hugely outnumber MC staff.
The agreement was voted in by a mixture of apathy and delivery.
It certainly couldn't have been the fault of MC workers.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Hi,

I think Delievery staff have to back what dingo is saying, today Mailcentres tomorrow Delivery offices.

64 MC to 32 how many Delivery offices are close by together, Manchester there around 10 bunch up in less than 5 miles radius.

Then there another 10, so once they finished with Mail Centres and RDC, its will be the DO cull.


you can see it coming

jimmy

Hold on a minute was it not MC members that voted this s**t in? It certainly was not the delivery men as we were truly getting shafted, so now the penny has dropped you want our backing?

As a delivery Member I have to say where does this rumour come from - The delivery members on the Postal side outnumber all other functions put together so we cannot be out voted by them. In fact the reverse is true if Deliveries got a good deal and the others got a right royal shafting there is nothing they can do about it except to trust that colleagues would not let them do it.

160,000 members in the Postal section according to the CWU and With well over 100,000 members working in this part of the Royal mail business, it remains the single largest group of members within the CWU. http://www.cwu.org/royal-mail-deliveries.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;