Union membership figures for may -

[fishtank]

Well more people left than joined but even that appears to be a victory to some blinkered idlers. It's a bit like pyramid selling really, get more people to join, the top tier get more money and those providing the wealth get less - and I thought that was illegal

Your spot on dvb.
You know your in trouble when your celebrating gradual decline.
I've yet to hear anything that will stop the decline or even reverse it but i'm all ears.

[Martin Walsh]

If you scroll back a few pages you will see some on here predicted a massive decline in members as a result of this agreement. It has not happened.


Yes there is a decline in members , and this will continue we are in a declining industry. I was in my old office last week , when I started in that office we have traffic levels on the GP of 350 ,000 and then close on 100 , 000 on the 10s. The normal delivery now is 140,000 on one delivery. So its natural that jobs have declined as result of that and therefore members of the union decline.

I think if you look at your offices traffic you would see a decline.

Now the fact is that we are not creating anywhere near the jobs we did in the 80s where we were putting in loads of jobs to cope with the then traffic increases.

I believe we will continue to lose members not as a result of members choosing to leave but because of the job losses and VRs.

Hardly a surprise and not a crisis provding the CWU cuts its spending in line with the decline.

[dvbuk55]

Well more people left than joined but even that appears to be a victory to some blinkered idlers. It's a bit like pyramid selling really, get more people to join, the top tier get more money and those providing the wealth get less - and I thought that was illegal

Your spot on dvb.
You know your in trouble when your celebrating gradual decline.
I've yet to hear anything that will stop the decline or even reverse it but i'm all ears.

Not all unions are in decline though ft. The GMB and USDAW are both enjoying an increase in membership. The GMB of which I was once a member had the same mentality now employed by the CWU however in order to make themselves more amenable to membership they have changed tactics and talk as a representative of the workers and not as a partner to the management, a lesson that the CWU would do well to learn before they have to amalgamate with another has been.

Honesty is the best policy but not surprisingly that's in short supply in Wimbledon.

[fishtank]

Well more people left than joined but even that appears to be a victory to some blinkered idlers. It's a bit like pyramid selling really, get more people to join, the top tier get more money and those providing the wealth get less - and I thought that was illegal

Your spot on dvb.
You know your in trouble when your celebrating gradual decline.
I've yet to hear anything that will stop the decline or even reverse it but i'm all ears.

Not all unions are in decline though ft. The GMB and USDAW are both enjoying an increase in membership. The GMB of which I was once a member had the same mentality now employed by the CWU however in order to make themselves more amenable to membership they have changed tactics and talk as a representative of the workers and not as a partner to the management, a lesson that the CWU would do well to learn before they have to amalgamate with another has been.

Honesty is the best policy but not surprisingly that's in short supply in Wimbledon.

Sorry dvb what i meant to say was I've yet to hear anything from those with their noses in the trough that will stop the decline or even reverse it but i'm all ears.
It is strange though to hear a senior CWU officer continue to slavishly peddle the management line of declining mail volumes means less jobs and poorer terms and conditions for all.
Does this mean next week when traffic volumes are set to increase by as much as 20% that we can all have our pay cut back and 20,000 new staff can be employed?
No.... because from what i hear management intend to absorb that increase in traffic without even flinching.
Never mind though i hear Bob is "very angry".

[dvbuk55]

Well more people left than joined but even that appears to be a victory to some blinkered idlers. It's a bit like pyramid selling really, get more people to join, the top tier get more money and those providing the wealth get less - and I thought that was illegal

Your spot on dvb.
You know your in trouble when your celebrating gradual decline.
I've yet to hear anything that will stop the decline or even reverse it but i'm all ears.

Not all unions are in decline though ft. The GMB and USDAW are both enjoying an increase in membership. The GMB of which I was once a member had the same mentality now employed by the CWU however in order to make themselves more amenable to membership they have changed tactics and talk as a representative of the workers and not as a partner to the management, a lesson that the CWU would do well to learn before they have to amalgamate with another has been.

Honesty is the best policy but not surprisingly that's in short supply in Wimbledon.

Sorry dvb what i meant to say was I've yet to hear anything from those with their noses in the trough that will stop the decline or even reverse it but i'm all ears.
It is strange though to hear a senior CWU officer continue to slavishly peddle the management line of declining mail volumes means less jobs and poorer terms and conditions for all.
Does this mean next week when traffic volumes are set to increase by as much as 20% that we can all have our pay cut back and 20,000 new staff can be employed?
No.... because from what i hear management intend to absorb that increase in traffic without even flinching.
Never mind though i hear Bob is "very angry".

I'll just bet he has penned a new "angry e-mail" and sent it off - then the next thing will be an LTB to say they have managed to negotiate an absorption process for increases in traffic due to any number of reasons BUT it won't mean an increase in pay, time into workload or more full time jobs - but hey ain't life wonderful when the troughs full

[fishtank]

I'll just bet he has penned a new "angry e-mail" and sent it off - then the next thing will be an LTB to say they have managed to negotiate an absorption process for increases in traffic due to any number of reasons BUT it won't mean an increase in pay, time into workload or more full time jobs - but hey ain't life wonderful when the troughs full

It's gone much further than an angry e-mail.
Rumour is it has escalated to the stage of an angry telephone call although do not quote me.
Next thing you know he'll be writing "Higson is a pr*ck" on the toilet wall at HQ.

[dvbuk55]

I'll just bet he has penned a new "angry e-mail" and sent it off - then the next thing will be an LTB to say they have managed to negotiate an absorption process for increases in traffic due to any number of reasons BUT it won't mean an increase in pay, time into workload or more full time jobs - but hey ain't life wonderful when the troughs full

It's gone much further than an angry e-mail.
Rumour is it has escalated to the stage of an angry telephone call although do not quote me.
Next thing you know he'll be writing "Higson is a pr*ck" on the toilet wall at HQ.

I had heard there was no more room on the walls in the bogs, most of the calculations for the negotiations is written on there and some may say it was the best place for them too

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I'll just bet he has penned a new "angry e-mail" and sent it off - then the next thing will be an LTB to say they have managed to negotiate an absorption process for increases in traffic due to any number of reasons BUT it won't mean an increase in pay, time into workload or more full time jobs - but hey ain't life wonderful when the troughs full

It's gone much further than an angry e-mail.
Rumour is it has escalated to the stage of an angry telephone call although do not quote me.
Next thing you know he'll be writing "Higson is a pr*ck" on the toilet wall at HQ.

There is one bright spot on the horizon though, and that is it appears as those at HQ are now coming up against the culture we have been facing at street level since 2007, perhaps they might even spit their dummies at some point.

One thing that is slightly, and only slightly,worrying, is that this agreement was sold as a new approach from both sides, yet we have senior reps saying that they thought the start of this new relationship might be a bit bumpy to start with. Sorry not good enough for me, ignoring what was written and what the spirit behind the agreement was, posties at the coal face dont have time to wait for the culture to improve, we voted to accept the whole agreement and at the moment we are still getting the brown end of the stick and honey is still too far away.

FI - D2D not being paid but have changes been made to the work NO. Absorption levels sill the same despite more D2D - I am sorry but the Union are getting a pasting in deliveries and unless HQ and those above DO level get their fingers out very soon the trickle of leavers will start to accelerate. Most people base their opinion on the success of the Union, rightly or wrongly on their own experience and the CWU are not exactly covering themselves in glory at the moment. They appear to be seen as one pace behind RM by most in my office.

[Big Daz]

I think if you look at your offices traffic you would see a decline.

Not mine

Traffic is going up, sick leave is up and the DOM wants a RM Casual to tide us over untill the revision.

[dvbuk55]

I'll just bet he has penned a new "angry e-mail" and sent it off - then the next thing will be an LTB to say they have managed to negotiate an absorption process for increases in traffic due to any number of reasons BUT it won't mean an increase in pay, time into workload or more full time jobs - but hey ain't life wonderful when the troughs full

It's gone much further than an angry e-mail.
Rumour is it has escalated to the stage of an angry telephone call although do not quote me.
Next thing you know he'll be writing "Higson is a pr*ck" on the toilet wall at HQ.

There is one bright spot on the horizon though, and that is it appears as those at HQ are now coming up against the culture we have been facing at street level since 2007, perhaps they might even spit their dummies at some point.

One thing that is slightly, and only slightly,worrying, is that this agreement was sold as a new approach from both sides, yet we have senior reps saying that they thought the start of this new relationship might be a bit bumpy to start with. Sorry not good enough for me, ignoring what was written and what the spirit behind the agreement was, posties at the coal face dont have time to wait for the culture to improve, we voted to accept the whole agreement and at the moment we are still getting the brown end of the stick and honey is still too far away.

FI - D2D not being paid but have changes been made to the work NO. Absorption levels sill the same despite more D2D - I am sorry but the Union are getting a pasting in deliveries and unless HQ and those above DO level get their fingers out very soon the trickle of leavers will start to accelerate. Most people base their opinion on the success of the Union, rightly or wrongly on their own experience and the CWU are not exactly covering themselves in glory at the moment. They appear to be seen as one pace behind RM by most in my office.

I didn't leave the union lightly TBT, but there is a point at which enough is enough. I have been unfortunate enough to be in one of those areas hammered by RM with one thing after another since 2007 and even before really and in my opinion I wouldn't say they are one pace behind I would say they are streets behind.

They have had ACAS, Brendan Barber and their own negotiators and a wealth of advice from those supposedly in the know and they come up with probably a worse agreement than 2007 - the camels back broke - not so much from the fact that the deal was poor but the persistence that they had done a wonderful job in the face of the obvious and then had the gall to recommend it with a succession of visits around the country.

[Martin Walsh]

I think if you look at your offices traffic you would see a decline.

Not mine

Traffic is going up, sick leave is up and the DOM wants a RM Casual to tide us over untill the revision.

Daz I would hazard a guess if you went back to 1984 and the year I joined Royal Mail then traffic has gone down in your office and probably all offices in the UK.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I think if you look at your offices traffic you would see a decline.

Not mine

Traffic is going up, sick leave is up and the DOM wants a RM Casual to tide us over untill the revision.

Daz I would hazard a guess if you went back to 1984 and the year I joined Royal Mail then traffic has gone down in your office and probably all offices in the UK.

and not being flippant but if you went back 350 years then staff levels and volume is up.

My point, and I think everyone else's is that traffic comparison should be treated on a like for like basis. In that it should be counted against staffing levels, and throughput in a comparable period. Otherwise you could do like I did with my tongue firmly in my cheek, and prove traffic is up or traffic is down all you have to do is choose the right year for the argument you want to present.

[Martin Walsh]

TBT why should it be worrying if a senior rep believes that the new relationship is not going to have some differcult times.

Any peace process be that in Ireland or any where else certainly takes time and patience to change things.

Royal Mail and the CWU have had some of the worse IR relationships of any union in the last 15 years. Last year saw possibly the most bitter dispute in Royal Mail in over 40 years and there is still a lot of bitterness and lack of trust on both sides.

I know that there are some senior managers who only know how to attack the workforce and have never wanted agreements.

However the fact is the people currently in charge now believe that Royal Mail cannot be succussful by going it alone without the agreement of the union and workforce. However lets be clear there are a number of senior managers who was in charge of their tactics during last years long running disputes who are the Hawks of the business and believe the union will never deliver the changes within this agreement.

It is early days and I do believe that any new relationship will take time to devlop. Lets face it we all know that some areas of the country have better relationships then others , some office accept more than others and some have worse IR then others.

However I think over time , a new relationship will devlop, a relationship where the rep is more involved then ever before and assisted by senior reps in better way then before.

However as someone who has been in plenty of disputes over the years , of course I will remain sceptical and whilst i hope that a new relationship can work , I will be prepared to continue reprsent the members as best I can under any relationship be that good or bad.

[Pinky 1]

I believe we will continue to lose members not as a result of members choosing to leave but because of the job losses and VRs.

Hardly a surprise and not a crisis provding the CWU cuts its spending in line with the decline.

If you believe this mate, you're sadly wrong.
We, at the coal face of delivery offices, have had a guts full of this so called agreement already. Transition period ? Don't make me laugh .....
Everything is being forced through at our place, d2d's, flexability, long and shorts, you name it, and we've got a lino trying to make a name for himself who's ramming it down our throats.
See our union rep you say ?
Well if he's not making coffee for the dim he's loading his round into his car in the yard.
Suppose it could be worse .....the part timers are even worse off than me

Well we are losing members dingo, 'cause they choose to leave...........

[brothermagrew]

And a good starting point would be for Royal Mail managers in every place of work to properly consult with the CWU reps whether Ind Relations, Health and Safety or any other kind of rep you wish to mention, and least of all we should not forget consulting the workforce in general. Only sticking block being that most of them (management) do not know the meaning of proper consultation.