Understanding the agreement

[dvbuk55]

Forget about 2003 Dingo - this is 2010 and this is the agreement under discussion - the spelling of the word situration is situation and unless you and the truth went to the same - erm "school" with a less than erudite teacher no two people would spell it the same - so are you a paranoid schizophrenic who doesn't know one personality from the other or just someone who wishes to put both sides of the coin on the table.

So by 2012 we are actually going to see some money? Well I won't because I will be retired, but really that is a moot point.

There is too much faith put into this agreement by the union and too much trust placed in Royal Mail, the situation before the strikes was about workload and bullying and harassment and this deal actually increases that likelihood not decreases it.

I am interested in the "full integration into the management structure by the CWU" what a very strange state of affairs, particularly - and only so far as I understand it, Area/Div Reps are paid the same as a DOM already, so upwards of £30k a year. You'd have to deliver a helluva lot of D2D for that sort of money - not now of course because we'll be doing them for free.

No I'm afraid this won't do, the agreement is not good enough nor tight enough and ACAS? wow a real organisation you need in adversity - like the EA still going on whilst the Interim Agreement was in place.

[The truth!]

Royal Mail`s plan for mail centres is reducing them from the current 64 to 46. The next big reviews are the South East and North East.

[dvbuk55]

Royal Mail`s plan for mail centres is reducing them from the current 64 to 46. The next big reviews are the South East and North East.

Does that mean more closures or those are the areas the closures will be in?

[banner18]

Some very powerful arguments from the truth here. I am not so concerned about the financial aspects of the agreement, more the operational changes and how they are managed.
The problem with agreements is that they are only as good as the manner that both sides approach them.

I would approach this agreement the same as all the others. My working ethos would be the same. I put effort into the hours for which I am paid taking into account H & S issues. I always carry out a reasonable request from any manager. I always show dignity and respect for my colleagues and managers.

The question arises, do we put faith in that managers will not have someone doing a 6 hour plus walk on a particular day due to resources being very tight and use the agreement to justify it?
Will part timers be expected to prep 600 + D2D somehow in their time just because the manager couldn't spare enough full timers to prep them that week? (managers then say, well you still get a supplement for 'em so find the time)
Where is any true accountabilty that managers should have adhere to what is deemed to be a managable work load?

It comes down to faith again. I fear that I may have to vote yes because I cannot see any other alternative.

[MinisterofCucumber]

The agreement says:

"We will review and simplify the IR framework with consistent principles by Autumn 2010 which reflect our new relationship."

So notice has been served on the current IR framework.

Has anyone got Roger Poole's number?

[dvbuk55]

The agreement says:

"We will review and simplify the IR framework with consistent principles by Autumn 2010 which reflect our new relationship."

So notice has been served on the current IR framework.

Has anyone got Roger Poole's number?

He's ex-directory and in any case the response you will get is "have you explored all solutions at local level, well in the meantime you should go ahead with the wording of the agreement, which I was a party too and found to be acceptable and personally I don't give a s**t about the local nitty gritty" and if you contact the union BUT ONLY IN AN EXCEPTIONAL CASE - they will say "whatever the manager says is what is in the agreement" - and basically that's true.

Of course the simplified IR framework with consistent principles isn't due to come into force until 6 months AFTER we have agreed to the deal.

[tpost]

All this comes down to whether we trust Royal Mail to play fair with this agreement. In my experience local management driven by the need to make savings will continue to ignore agreements and exert maximum pressure on the workforce. The removal of the cap on D2D just increases the workload on delivery staff and I think we will again find it a struggle to have D2D included in the workload as local managers will continue the tactics of delay in implementing any change. The leadership of CWU may well be happy with what they have achieved but on delivery we know things are not going to be so easy as we take the brunt of any change. 2007 was a poor agreement and this one is nothing but promising words.

[numan]

In terms of legally binding agreements we dont have them in this country.

Maybe not, but we do have Employment Tribunals. In the circumstance of a manager trying to force somebody out on a 5 hr delivery and them refusing and getting sacked, is there anything in this agreement that would save the employee at an ET?

[borders]

Royal Mail`s plan for mail centres is reducing them from the current 64 to 46. The next big reviews are the South East and North East.

like i said not much detail to this part of the agreement !!!

[belle smith]

Very few people on this board have been involved in high level negotations and even fewer have been involved in those negotations with ACAS assisting.

Fair point...How many people negotiating it have worked in deliveries with 3.5 hr delivery limit? how many of the national officers will be, day in day out working in delivery under this agreement....very few or......none?

3. The delivery span is unlimited and can mean someone walking the streets for up to 7 hours - No it doesnt , the workplan will drive the delivery span. The agreement states the majority of will start before 0700 in the morning , the second batch of walk sequencing will not be in your office until after 0800 and as late as 10 in the morning. You will still need to put the work in the frame , add your flats , redirections , dead, tie up , include the door to door as it will be part of your workload etc before you go out. The agreement states that the vast majority ( estimated to 92% ) will be finished before 02 30. The delivery time wil include the total time , travelling , replenishment, toilet break and delivery time. So say that you will finsh your prep at say 0930 and then you are entitled to your meal relief and then on delivery well the most you can deliver will be 4 hours as travelling and replishment etc would have to be taken into account. Of course if you recieve your second 40% later then your span will be less. In any case delivery methods will be introduced and more importantly walks for the first time ever have to take in the factor stress and fatigue and if you do not have walk sequecing or delivery methods yet then you have to deomostrate clear solutions to fatigue and weight if you want an office to move past the current delivery span.

Okay delivery spans are not unlimited, so what is the limit to delivery spans?
Since a great deal of faith is being placed on the new delivery methods "taking weight off the back" what is the new max limit for pouches....i assume it should be less than 16 kilos, can't seem to see it anywhere in the agreement.

[Big Daz]

The agreement says:

"We will review and simplify the IR framework with consistent principles by Autumn 2010 which reflect our new relationship."

So notice has been served on the current IR framework.

Has anyone got Roger Poole's number?

CWU have been talking about a new IR framework for years, never materalises though, I hope this time it does.

[dvbuk55]

The agreement says:

"We will review and simplify the IR framework with consistent principles by Autumn 2010 which reflect our new relationship."

So notice has been served on the current IR framework.

Has anyone got Roger Poole's number?

CWU have been talking about a new IR framework for years, never materalises though, I hope this time it does.

Be careful what you wish for

[ashadd]

The truth wrote"On the other hand we have now a £20.60 payment paid forever " isnt that what they said about esa???? So what happens later on down the line, when they want to get rid of the £20.60 payment. ???

[Big Daz]

As the proable local rep when my D.O gets its revision in the summer, then I will be released from duty to participate as with all local revisions. My predescors have always been released from duty for revision activity as well. If we manage to come up with some proposals that we are all happy with and fit in with the wording in the proposed agreement then I will be putting those local proposals to a vote which is what we allways do in my D.O. The same will happen next year with sequenced mail, the rep (2011 is now with us yet, so the rep is unknown) will be released and will put the alterations to duties to a vote.

Now Im no way what so ever going to agree or put any proposals out to vote if they do not match the agreement.

In that situation disagreement will be registered. We then move to the achieving local agreement section of the IR framework.

If RM want nightmare duties in my D.O then it will be executive action and I will be asking HQ for a IA ballot.

Local reps are in the driving seat to make sure decent proposals are developed and put out to vote.

[dvbuk55]

As the proable local rep when my D.O gets its revision in the summer, then I will be released from duty to participate as with all local revisions. My predescors have always been released from duty for revision activity as well. If we manage to come up with some proposals that we are all happy with and fit in with the wording in the proposed agreement then I will be putting those local proposals to a vote which is what we allways do in my D.O. The same will happen next year with sequenced mail, the rep (2011 is now with us yet, so the rep is unknown) will be released and will put the alterations to duties to a vote.

Now Im no way what so ever going to agree or put any proposals out to vote if they do not match the agreement.

In that situation disagreement will be registered. We then move to the achieving local agreement section of the IR framework.

If RM want nightmare duties in my D.O then it will be executive action and I will be asking HQ for a IA ballot.

Local reps are in the driving seat to make sure decent proposals are developed and put out to vote.

That would be great if we knew what the revision tools are, if we knew what the agreement stipulated on span, Park and Loop, sequenced and unsequenced revision and of course what was contained in the new IR framework, and how rigid H&S will be applied and who will be chosen as the TOP 10% to which we must all aspire to.