Cutting off and refusing to work overtime

[netgear200]

k979aaa I agree with you, problem is we have well over 100 posties in our office and getting all these peeps to stick togther is very difficult

Same in my office.

Mine 2

That why we should all use the grievance procedure so there is evidence of this practice that the Doms deploy in DOs

[opgpat]

Having been there and done that, firstly would say u can not be made to work over your hours. Tell LM soon as u know that u will be unable to complete. Don't say 'i'll be cutting off' as can be seen as intimidating language. Say something like 'I'm unable to complete the duty in my hours today and don't wish to do OT, what would u like me to do with the bit I can't do? Tie it up or leave it in the frame?' Don't enter into a conversation about it as they will try to talk u round - or tell u you are too slow! Just tell them straight and if they question it just repeat yourself clearly. If they DO say blah blah u too slow, others do it in time say. 'I can't comment on others work rate and I would appreciate it if u didn't call my work performance into question. I am happy to be tested on my prep and delivery.' Then carry on with your work.

They are not actually supposed to question your perfromance in a critical way atall. They should encourage u and offer assistance/training/guidance. So if they then continue to criticise u after you have warned them not to (essentially u have made them aware u feel harrassed) then u have a legitimate grievance to make. If it continues, they say 'why does it take u so long etc etc etc' don't try to defend your perfromance - you don't have to. Tell them u feel harassesd and go see the rep. Get a grievance form and make detailed notes about the incident AND any future incidents of the like. PAPER WORK IS CRUCIAL in a grievance case so get a diary too and make dated entries and quote what was said to and the persons body language and tone of voice. Also state what u said back.

Unfortunately this is the way it goes, i had exactly the same situation, it led to a grievance which was upheld in my favour. RM DO NOT accept bullying or harassment of staff if u can prove it has occured so be assured you are following the rules while THEY are breaking them and actually breaking the law. Stay strong.

[netgear200]

Having been there and done that, firstly would say u can not be made to work over your hours. Tell LM soon as u know that u will be unable to complete. Don't say 'i'll be cutting off' as can be seen as intimidating language. Say something like 'I'm unable to complete the duty in my hours today and don't wish to do OT, what would u like me to do with the bit I can't do? Tie it up or leave it in the frame?' Don't enter into a conversation about it as they will try to talk u round - or tell u you are too slow! Just tell them straight and if they question it just repeat yourself clearly. If they DO say blah blah u too slow, others do it in time say. 'I can't comment on others work rate and I would appreciate it if u didn't call my work performance into question. I am happy to be tested on my prep and delivery.' Then carry on with your work.

They are not actually supposed to question your perfromance in a critical way atall. They should encourage u and offer assistance/training/guidance. So if they then continue to criticise u after you have warned them not to (essentially u have made them aware u feel harrassed) then u have a legitimate grievance to make. If it continues, they say 'why does it take u so long etc etc etc' don't try to defend your perfromance - you don't have to. Tell them u feel harassesd and go see the rep. Get a grievance form and make detailed notes about the incident AND any future incidents of the like. PAPER WORK IS CRUCIAL in a grievance case so get a diary too and make dated entries and quote what was said to and the persons body language and tone of voice. Also state what u said back.

Unfortunately this is the way it goes, i had exactly the same situation, it led to a grievance which was upheld in my favour. RM DO NOT accept bullying or harassment of staff if u can prove it has occured so be assured you are following the rules while THEY are breaking them and actually breaking the law. Stay strong.

well said!

Write a letter outlying your grievance keep it handy and the Next time that this happens go and get you rep in the office with you and tell the Dom to stop victimising you or he will leave you with no choice but to give him the grievance letter,

if he try to give it "I just doing my job and if I think that you don't need o/t then I have every right to challenge you"

Reply!

"Not in the manner that you have and are using"

If he doesn’t back down give him the grievance letter.

Hope that helps!

[k979aaa]

I must say both of you are doing a stirling job on this issue and i agree with your advice.

[belle smith]

Don't do overtime unless you are paid for it!!! Remind them that "Flexability does not mean getting postmen and women to work more hours than they are paid for."
unless you have a local agreement stating otherwise your delivery span should not be over 3.5 hours. Ask in writing to have your duty tested by agreed procedures (not pegasus there is no national agreement on its use). You do not have to work any more than 3.5 hours on the street and they can't make you!
I know thats much easier said than done.
if you feel your are being harrassed (which you already are being, ask for a bullying and harrassment form)
if they blame your performance ask for training help. problems with performance requier corrective action not disaplinary (think thats RM and CWU policy)
if all else fails resort to threats.
ie. do your managers sign in and out, there supposed to for the fire redgister H&S policy, They don't in our office, managers like to leave early when they can, usually on a Saturday. THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THIS! EVEN WHEN WE HAD A JOB AND FINISH THEY DIDN'T! THIS IS BREECH OF CONTRACT! I've asked two DOMS and a DSM about this they were all coy and had diffrent answers. Made a fuss about this when i was getting signed late for one or two mins. I've since been late by more than an hour and told not to bother signing late. managers are s**t scared of this. Bring it up at WTL session mention the fire redgester.
ps. not advising you to carry out a threat of going above their head about this just subtely make it at WTL.

[teruah]

the advice in this thread is excellent, never thought whether managers sign in or not, i don't think they do in our office? I know they leave early, soon as the mails out the door they could'nt care less about us

[madelin4]

But the only thing they can manage to do is too make it difficult for all most are a hindrance to the average postie and all this bull about informing before you go out is at best guess work after all how long is a piece of string!.

I agree, In our office managers discriminate against you if you cut off, people tend to get 'singled out' so to speak as a' bad egg' I have witnessed it and experienced it personally.

Quite pathetic really.

I agree, i have felt discriminated against and i have medical issues that i could not complete duty. They start to test your prep and sorting and tell you you are 2 slow!! They said that to me, and am not being big head i was always brilliant at my job, took great pride and i did care that i done a good accurate job for my customers.
Prob is now they will end up with people who do not care because they will be treated so bad by them so in the end its the customer that suffers i think ! Its a joke.

[montriff]

The thing is the customer suffers and who do they blame ? yes the poor postie struggling on his walk not the suit and ties back at the office

[kevster9966]

Hi I've just got a fulltime duty. But been told even though its my duty they will be moving wherever as I know to many duties. Is this allowed? The reason I went for this duty is so id know my day offs. But that doesn't like that will be the case. I'm still part time contracted and no fulltime will be issued until september! I don't know whether I should continue with fulltime or goback to my part time hours! Also no long weekend in 11 months cant be fair.

[chrisj]

A full-time duty does not necessarily mean you have your own walk/duty. I think it is the hours that have increased with the added bonus of doing more of the same duty a lot of the times.

Why go back to part-time hours when you (probably do a lot of overtime - I am guessing) and you will still be s*at on by doing many different rounds?

The only shame about your situation is that you are offered a full-time role but your contract is still part-time; so all the benefits will still be pro-rata. RM wins mostly but you get more regular full-time hours and if lucky a full-time contract.

Stick with it but fight for more long weekends off - you deserve that, at least.

[kevster9966]

Thanks for the reply. I thought once you had your own duty you stay on it rather than being a reserve?

[chrisj]

Most folks with their own duty stay on that duty but then sometimes the office 'needs' might require a walkholder; particularly a versatile one (like you) to do something else or another walk.

Usually this involves a driving duty or a specialist duty that they cannot find people that know that round or willing to do that round. Being versatile and more junior or part-time you are likely going to be asked to do something else before some other people in your office.

As long as it is a reasonable manager's request then try and 'take the rough with the smooth'...

[bogstandard]

Hi I've just got a fulltime duty. But been told even though its my duty they will be moving wherever as I know to many duties. Is this allowed? The reason I went for this duty is so id know my day offs. But that doesn't like that will be the case. I'm still part time contracted and no fulltime will be issued until september! I don't know whether I should continue with fulltime or goback to my part time hours! Also no long weekend in 11 months cant be fair.

i don't think you can be part time and hold a full time duty.
if you're p/t, you're employed from then until when, everything outside of that is O/t. as you have stated your contract of employment has not changed so you are in no position to dictate to the business when your day off is or will be. Does seem odd that you have been allowed to sing for a full time post though.

[POSTMAN]

Thanks for the reply. I thought once you had your own duty you stay on it rather than being a reserve?

You do,within reason you could be being had over.
If you're on a duty long term then you follow the day's off pattern of it.
If they want to change your days off then they should give you reasonable notice.
For instance,your day off this week is Fri and on the Wed they change it to Thurs,that is not on,suppose you had plans for your day off.

While they can within reason again shunt you to different duties your day off should stay the same in the name of fairness,see your rep.

[eastie]

We did what you would call a DOUBLE CUT OFF today.
We worked out roughly where we thought we would finish and left 2 loops and all the packets for those loops as well but there was so many recordeds and specials today that we was nowhere near finished and bought another 2 loops back as well which the DOM said "you cant do that" but we did.
Question is , if we said that we thought we would get X amount done , and by cut off time we dont, can management say "You have to finish it because you said you would get X amount done "if it means going over?