Do you still tell your manager when you can't extend?

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Firstly the manager should be reachable within your duty time but I know it's not always the case.
Managers going home early is wrong when people are still delivering within their contractual hours.
Any incident could occur.
I wouldn't say you had no other option but to complete.
In future I would just pre warm on any busy day that you may struggle just to cover your back but in a situation like that where you judged it wrong because of an unexpected workload (double mail) there needs to be a level of understanding from management.
I would just message them explaining you misjudged and had to bring some letters back and have the conversation in the morning.
In terms of having to pay pressure, they should really.
If the walk didn't go out the day before and only the tracks were completed then they should have the budget to pay the pressure as they would have the lapsed hours from earlier in the week.
They are supposed to resourcing to workload, not to savings.

Thanks Mickey

It's also wrong that there isn't someone reachable for those posties who are still delivering outside of their contractual hours as well because incidents or accidents could also occur then. We have someone who works in the callers office then - but what do they do when there's an accident - just shut up shop? I've been informed that there is at least one manager who stays behind for this but last Saturday when I got back all the managers had gone.

From what I've seen a lot of the newer posties are often working past their time on a daily basis. According to one guy I spoke to he said that if he didn't complete he would just be moved around in different sections/different offices/doing LATs in the evenings etc etc and he couldn't be ar$ed to stand their arguing with manager's over what was achievable or not. He said he often agrees to complete and works the overtime but that this manager in question usually never puts his name down on the delivery excess sheet and when he wasn't paid on his monthly pay slip, this manager said that it was "unauthorised"!! I've told him to stop doing any overtime if this is the case and put in a grievance against him. This is the biggest problem in RM when things are agreed verbally. Even if you clocked out late via SISO that overtime might still not be paid if it wasn't "agreed" beforehand apparently.

No wonder allot of the new contracts are leaving at such high rates if they are treated like this.
Moving someone every time they fail a walk/route is a form of bullying.
It is insinuating the postman is at fault for the failure not the workload.
He should have a witness there when the overtime is agreed next time, preferably a rep if he is in the union.

[JKSmudge]

Walk is far too big, we take our breaks and ensure all Specials and Tracked are done and usually leave some mail in frame amd/or bring some back.
Manager knows we won't work over,sometimes get a snide comment but hey ho.. there's a not a queue of people wanting to do the job.

[twoloops]

We only take out what we think we can deliver, it's never mention it to anyone, if we do hit time it comes back tracked & all, it's just accepted, I cannot remember the last time I spoke to our line manager or the last time he came out of his office,

[Walter sobchak]

Im on a rural duty and its hard to judge how much I’ll complete so just end up taking everything out as I sometimes pass farmers and other residents on the road from awkward places or catch them in the local post office/shop and this depending on how many I meet can save upto 20-30 minutes or even 45 minutes to an hour if I’m lucky allowing me to pretty much clear my round.

What I don’t clear once I’ve hit 2pm I just bring back to the office and sort back into the frame and nobody asks questions or is any the wiser as the manager has long gone by the time I get back which is usually between 3pm-3.30pm.

[SpacePhoenix]

They are supposed to resourcing to workload, not to savings.

It has been resource to budget across the business for a few years now

[norris9]

When 90% of conversations related to this result in managers bullying/harassing - why bother doing it.

You go to a manager in our place and say you can't complete the response is - 'why, you have gaps in your frame, X person could achieve this, I want it all delivered!'.... when it's absolutely impossible that you will be able to complete in your time....

Then when you come back with mail at the end of the day and tell them the response is - 'this isn't good enough, why didn't you complete, it was a light day'... or some b0||@x like that.

and they do this to people who come in and do their best, are efficient and good workers.


The whole point in reporting back to them is so they can either get someone else to go back out with it or report it as failed. Yet it's more about having a go at posties and falsely claiming they aren't good or fast enough.

[funkflex55]

When 90% of conversations related to this result in managers bullying/harassing - why bother doing it.

You go to a manager in our place and say you can't complete the response is - 'why, you have gaps in your frame, X person could achieve this, I want it all delivered!'.... when it's absolutely impossible that you will be able to complete in your time....

Then when you come back with mail at the end of the day and tell them the response is - 'this isn't good enough, why didn't you complete, it was a light day'... or some b0||@x like that.

and they do this to people who come in and do their best, are efficient and good workers.


The whole point in reporting back to them is so they can either get someone else to go back out with it or report it as failed. Yet it's more about having a go at posties and falsely claiming they aren't good or fast enough.

Spot on. Nothing more than a tool to bully and harass the posties hoping that they'll do unwanted overtime or work faster than they should do. Only results in resentment from the staff and in some cases worse performance. Management target the wrong people when there's some that blatantly take piss and nothing is done because they don't know how to deal with conflict because they have zero people skills.

[Mr Rush]

the response is - 'why, you have gaps in your frame, X person could achieve this, I want it all delivered!'

They're trained more to debate than manage people. Talking points like those are designed to put your off balance on the presumption that you are at it. It doesn't catch out the wily chancer who can verbally spar with ease; but the quiet ones who used to just get on with the job every day when it could be done without ever having to cut-off may not be able to defend their position and circumstances with such ease, and that's where it starts to cross into bullying and harassment.

[menditsa]

What's a manager ?

[abuch1980]

the response is - 'why, you have gaps in your frame, X person could achieve this, I want it all delivered!'

They're trained more to debate than manage people. Talking points like those are designed to put your off balance on the presumption that you are at it. It doesn't catch out the wily chancer who can verbally spar with ease; but the quiet ones who used to just get on with the job every day when it could be done without ever having to cut-off may not be able to defend their position and circumstances with such ease, and that's where it starts to cross into bullying and harassment.

Absolutely spot on Mr rush. Pick on the weak.

[HTPostman]

Spot on comments. To be fair, on the whole I had good managers who knew the deliveries were too long (and there were usually always overtime kings who’d snap up what you left). On the rare occasion they’d question my work rate or compare me to someone else I’d ask the manager to please come out with me and show me where I’m going wrong, or I’d ask Mr Bloggs to come over and give me some tips on how he can supposedly do 9 bags and 120 tracks in 4 hours (knowing full he’d say he can’t and he usually leaves XYZ).

I think that’s why I find the way the union are going to be incomprehensible, when anyone calls them out on social media they just say would you like to come on the show. It’s that passive aggressive behaviour, rather than listen and try and understand where you are coming from, it’s straight on the offensive. In my opinion if you’re paying your subs you have every right to question the performance and reasoning behind what they are doing.

[norris9]

and this is why I think we need a job and finish setup....

Sensible sized duties & you take a maximum of 50 Tracked parcels. You finish early - you go home. If it's a bit busier - you stay and complete...

-The work gets completed / USO is adhered to.
-You don't have parts of your round with double mail the next day.
-You average your finish time across the year.
-You don't have to deal with toxic managers. RM can reduce management numbers.
-You come in knowing you will get done in a decent time.
-No lapsing.
-Any excess Tracked over the 50 limit is delivered by parcel drivers.

You could add a little more detail into this setup, but generally a sensibly put together round + a 50 Tracked cap would make things manageable.

You'd just need to add in some details like what happens when there is a work meeting - maybe the amount of Tracked you take reduces by 5 for every 10 minutes the meeting takes.

[SkiSunday]

and this is why I think we need a job and finish setup....


You'd just need to add in some details..

There is your first and only problem when it comes down to Royal Mail, the owner doesn't care about either of those things.

[Acca Dacca]

and this is why I think we need a job and finish setup....

Sensible sized duties & you take a maximum of 50 Tracked parcels. You finish early - you go home. If it's a bit busier - you stay and complete...

-The work gets completed / USO is adhered to.
-You don't have parts of your round with double mail the next day.
-You average your finish time across the year.
-You don't have to deal with toxic managers. RM can reduce management numbers.
-You come in knowing you will get done in a decent time.
-No lapsing.
-Any excess Tracked over the 50 limit is delivered by parcel drivers.

You could add a little more detail into this setup, but generally a sensibly put together round + a 50 Tracked cap would make things manageable.

You'd just need to add in some details like what happens when there is a work meeting - maybe the amount of Tracked you take reduces by 5 for every 10 minutes the meeting takes.

Please stop persisting with this norris. Please.

[ted_e_bear]

and this is why I think we need a job and finish setup....

Sensible sized duties & you take a maximum of 50 Tracked parcels. You finish early - you go home. If it's a bit busier - you stay and complete...

-The work gets completed / USO is adhered to.
-You don't have parts of your round with double mail the next day.
-You average your finish time across the year.
-You don't have to deal with toxic managers. RM can reduce management numbers.
-You come in knowing you will get done in a decent time.
-No lapsing.
-Any excess Tracked over the 50 limit is delivered by parcel drivers.

You could add a little more detail into this setup, but generally a sensibly put together round + a 50 Tracked cap would make things manageable.

You'd just need to add in some details like what happens when there is a work meeting - maybe the amount of Tracked you take reduces by 5 for every 10 minutes the meeting takes.

Please stop persisting with this norris. Please.

The important bit is as you quote "sensible sized duties" that would cure it with the exception of bulk mailings and Christmas amounts of parcels which could both be accomodated with proactive management.

(yes ok I know we don't currently have anything remotely resembling that)