Salary sacrifice & min wage - LTB 064/25 - a freebie?

[loyalsnail]

Wouldn't a move to monthly pay sort this out?

It might help but it wouldn't solve it and it would bring in different problems.

[tramssirhc]

I kinda knew you would use this to attack the union.

The problem lies with the government's lack of flexibility over what it considers a Pay Reference Period:.

If someone is paid weekly, their pay reference period is one week. If they are paid monthly, it's one month.

Employers must ensure that all workers are paid at least the minimum wage for the hours worked in each pay reference period.

Time off in lieu (Toil) which is basically what the Wallington pattern is based around is not recognised by the NMW and hours worked during the Pay Reference Period are all counted for the purposes of the minimum wage.

Workers all over the country work condensed hours. It's not time off in lieu, it's a rotational pattern. The issue is not the rotational pattern it's the rate of pay. The problem lies with the industry and the trade union.

[tramssirhc]

And now the attack on the Wallington rotation starts. No one is working additional hours. No one is breaching the minimum wage. Walsh is talking like a boss when he starts saying these things. Before he sold out he used to defend the Wallys. Now he's spouting nonsense about 'extra hours'. By that very logic his favourite rotations for the new way of working are a breach of the minimum wage. The Wallys have always been a target and now the CWU are helping to get rid of them.

That is why mw is in position hes in an your on here spouting crap every post just to bash cwu.

Martin Walsh is in the position he's in because he's incapable of representing his own image in a mirror.

[tramssirhc]

And now the attack on the Wallington rotation starts. No one is working additional hours. No one is breaching the minimum wage. Walsh is talking like a boss when he starts saying these things. Before he sold out he used to defend the Wallys. Now he's spouting nonsense about 'extra hours'. By that very logic his favourite rotations for the new way of working are a breach of the minimum wage. The Wallys have always been a target and now the CWU are helping to get rid of them.

You really are a twerp!

It's no wonder the CWU is useless with responses like this.

[tramssirhc]

I kinda knew you would use this to attack the union.

The problem lies with the government's lack of flexibility over what it considers a Pay Reference Period:.

If someone is paid weekly, their pay reference period is one week. If they are paid monthly, it's one month.

Employers must ensure that all workers are paid at least the minimum wage for the hours worked in each pay reference period.

Time off in lieu (Toil) which is basically what the Wallington pattern is based around is not recognised by the NMW and hours worked during the Pay Reference Period are all counted for the purposes of the minimum wage.

This. Hitting the nail on the head.

There is no conspiracy, it's all rooted in cold hard reality.

It's not about conspiracies. It's about the words being used. Wallys aren't the problem, the rate of pay and salary sacrifice are.

[rogersh]

My guess is not a freebie.

Just an IOU. Or more accurately WOT - We Owe Them

When the pay rise is agreed and implemented, anything that would normally have been paid up to that point will be taken back out of whatever backdated pay we receive.

We as individuals will have no idea if it's correct.

I'm remembering the payslip fiasco of a couple of years ago when everything basic/or/hp and whatever else was done line by line week by week and it couldn't all be put on our payslips

I agree with this. I have NOT had my POAL deducted from this weeks (52) pay.
After the pay rise is implemented I assume RM will either take the outstanding owed money from the backpay or increase the weekly payments to balance the annual amount.

[Hitcher]

After the pay rise is implemented I assume RM will either take the outstanding owed money from the backpay or increase the weekly payments to balance the annual amount.

The letter clearly states "you will not be charged retrospectively for any salary reduction not implemented during this time".

[Jefferson Starfish]

And now the attack on the Wallington rotation starts. No one is working additional hours. No one is breaching the minimum wage. Walsh is talking like a boss when he starts saying these things. Before he sold out he used to defend the Wallys. Now he's spouting nonsense about 'extra hours'. By that very logic his favourite rotations for the new way of working are a breach of the minimum wage. The Wallys have always been a target and now the CWU are helping to get rid of them.

You really are a twerp!

It's no wonder the CWU is useless with responses like this.

Lol.

[Woody Guthrie]

I kinda knew you would use this to attack the union.

The problem lies with the government's lack of flexibility over what it considers a Pay Reference Period:.

If someone is paid weekly, their pay reference period is one week. If they are paid monthly, it's one month.

Employers must ensure that all workers are paid at least the minimum wage for the hours worked in each pay reference period.

Time off in lieu (Toil) which is basically what the Wallington pattern is based around is not recognised by the NMW and hours worked during the Pay Reference Period are all counted for the purposes of the minimum wage.

Workers all over the country work condensed hours. It's not time off in lieu, it's a rotational pattern. The issue is not the rotational pattern it's the rate of pay. The problem lies with the industry and the trade union.

It is unpaid time worked in return for paid time off.
It is exactly the definition of time off in lieu.
Although the problem has been flagged up by the increase in the NMW it's doubtful that any increase in pay this year unless it's considerable will fully resolve the issue.

The reasons we seem to be particularly impacted by this is that we're one of the few major employers who still uses weekly pay, the NWM guidelines do allow TOIL to flow into the next pay reference period which for the vast majority of employees on monthly pay means that it isn't an issue but the next pay period is the absolute limit.

For those on a Wallington it's five pay periods before that's resolved. It might be to protect that pattern those affected could as Clash points out move to monthly pay.

As for the language used, I think you're just letting your ideological hatred for all things CWU to blind you to the fact that all Martin said was that the business has pointed out a potential legal compliance issue, he did not make any comment on whether it would mean an end to anything.

[N|M]

My payslip is missing the POAL this week, and i just got a letter from HMRC saying i owe them £50

Hope the 2 are not related

[rogersh]

After the pay rise is implemented I assume RM will either take the outstanding owed money from the backpay or increase the weekly payments to balance the annual amount.

The letter clearly states "you will not be charged retrospectively for any salary reduction not implemented during this time".

Does it... I have not yet received a letter

[yellowbelly]

After the pay rise is implemented I assume RM will either take the outstanding owed money from the backpay or increase the weekly payments to balance the annual amount.

The letter clearly states "you will not be charged retrospectively for any salary reduction not implemented during this time".

Does it... I have not yet received a letter

Very interesting - I assumed there'd be a clawback too but the letter I received today clearly states exactly what Hitcher has highlighted!

[Patmanposts]

Received my letter yesterday,

I would imagine sometime after a pay rise we will have to pay the full amount in increments spread out over the following tax year…..they cant take it all back in one go through risk of us going under minimum wage.

[biggiehud]

I had the same 50£ letter from Hmrc two years in a row

[Woody Guthrie]

I don't trust RM at all and I'm surprised they're doing this but the indication is they are prepared to foot the bill at least in the short term.

It does kind of start the clock ticking on the pay rise negotiations though which makes me think a deal of sorts has more or less already been agreed with the board.