Outdoor Assistant Secretary Tony Bouch addresses the issue of rogue managers at Royal Mail acting outside the agreed terms of reference in relation to the USO pilot schemes.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

The usual suspects straight on to put the boot into the CWU , boring.

In fairness the CWU deserve it. It's an awful organisation.

Yeah, let’s all pull our subs and chuck the union. We don’t need a union. RM are are great employer, the CWU are holding us back. Without them we could be living a life of luxury with, dare I dream, commit to deliver, unpaid breaks, no representation, imposed pay rises, I could go on, but alas, the CWU are the ones preventing this utopia from happening

Exactly.
Never understood the constant bashing of an organisation thats sole existence is to make our working life better.
You can have opinions on their direction of travel of whether they are dealing with certain issues well enough but the way some on here speak about them you would think they were the enemy within.
Bizarre. If you hate them that much leave the union and be done with it.

It's classic trait of CWU loyalists to conflate critism with treachery. Only those not on the bag could consider the CWU a useful entity at the moment.

Criticism about elements of their effectiveness is different to just attacking the whole organisation at any opportunity.
Calling them an awful organisation suggest they are bad to the core.
If you are still in the union them why?
Why would you pay for something that you despise so much.

[Woody Guthrie]

There are obviously people on this site who disagree with the structure of the CWU on an ideological basis.

That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but unfortunately it pulls every thread into an off topic political argument.

Years ago the moderators tried to resolve this by creating different forums for different topics and trying to keep people discussing the actual original post. Unfortunately some people just keep ignoring that in my opinion to the detriment of the entire site.

As a reminder this one is about the union's response to "rogue managers". My personal take on that is that I've been hearing that since I started in this job and from both sides and I'm not convinced that any of these managers have ever had that level of original thought so I have to conclude that they're being directed from above and either Tony is extremely gullible or simply feeding us the same s**t he's getting fed.

[Jb1969]

There are obviously people on this site who disagree with the structure of the CWU on an ideological basis.

That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but unfortunately it pulls every thread into an off topic political argument.

Years ago the moderators tried to resolve this by creating different forums for different topics and trying to keep people discussing the actual original post. Unfortunately some people just keep ignoring that in my opinion to the detriment of the entire site.

As a reminder this one is about the union's response to "rogue managers". My personal take on that is that I've been hearing that since I started in this job and from both sides and I'm not convinced that any of these managers have ever had that level of original thought so I have to conclude that they're being directed from above and either Tony is extremely gullible or simply feeding us the same s**t he's getting fed.

A bit of common sense, makes a pleasant change.
Of course they are being instructed, it’s office after office suffering the same scenarios.

[tramssirhc]

The usual suspects straight on to put the boot into the CWU , boring.

In fairness the CWU deserve it. It's an awful organisation.

Yeah, let’s all pull our subs and chuck the union. We don’t need a union. RM are are great employer, the CWU are holding us back. Without them we could be living a life of luxury with, dare I dream, commit to deliver, unpaid breaks, no representation, imposed pay rises, I could go on, but alas, the CWU are the ones preventing this utopia from happening

Exactly.
Never understood the constant bashing of an organisation thats sole existence is to make our working life better.
You can have opinions on their direction of travel of whether they are dealing with certain issues well enough but the way some on here speak about them you would think they were the enemy within.
Bizarre. If you hate them that much leave the union and be done with it.

It's classic trait of CWU loyalists to conflate critism with treachery. Only those not on the bag could consider the CWU a useful entity at the moment.

Criticism about elements of their effectiveness is different to just attacking the whole organisation at any opportunity.
Calling them an awful organisation suggest they are bad to the core.
If you are still in the union them why?
Why would you pay for something that you despise so much.

It is bad to the core. No representative should be sitting back and letting this happen. No one is saying no. The members, the reps, the branches. That's how bad the rot is.

[ted_e_bear]

There are obviously people on this site who disagree with the structure of the CWU on an ideological basis.

That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but unfortunately it pulls every thread into an off topic political argument.

Years ago the moderators tried to resolve this by creating different forums for different topics and trying to keep people discussing the actual original post. Unfortunately some people just keep ignoring that in my opinion to the detriment of the entire site.

As a reminder this one is about the union's response to "rogue managers". My personal take on that is that I've been hearing that since I started in this job and from both sides and I'm not convinced that any of these managers have ever had that level of original thought so I have to conclude that they're being directed from above and either Tony is extremely gullible or simply feeding us the same s**t he's getting fed.

A bit of common sense, makes a pleasant change.
Of course they are being instructed, it’s office after office suffering the same scenarios.

I agree, I reckon woody is spot on with his observation that the managers are incapable of any original thoughts of their own, ours certainly isn't and to my knowledge has never done anything proactive whatsoever, it's got to be cascading from above

[Mickeybrowneyes]

The usual suspects straight on to put the boot into the CWU , boring.

In fairness the CWU deserve it. It's an awful organisation.

Yeah, let’s all pull our subs and chuck the union. We don’t need a union. RM are are great employer, the CWU are holding us back. Without them we could be living a life of luxury with, dare I dream, commit to deliver, unpaid breaks, no representation, imposed pay rises, I could go on, but alas, the CWU are the ones preventing this utopia from happening

Exactly.
Never understood the constant bashing of an organisation thats sole existence is to make our working life better.
You can have opinions on their direction of travel of whether they are dealing with certain issues well enough but the way some on here speak about them you would think they were the enemy within.
Bizarre. If you hate them that much leave the union and be done with it.

It's classic trait of CWU loyalists to conflate critism with treachery. Only those not on the bag could consider the CWU a useful entity at the moment.

Criticism about elements of their effectiveness is different to just attacking the whole organisation at any opportunity.
Calling them an awful organisation suggest they are bad to the core.
If you are still in the union them why?
Why would you pay for something that you despise so much.

It is bad to the core. No representative should be sitting back and letting this happen. No one is saying no. The members, the reps, the branches. That's how bad the rot is.

Saying it's rotten to the core is strong.
Allot of reps are trying their best to serve the interest of it's members.
Its hard to get a grip of all these offices at once if they are being instructed to manage a certain way.
I agree it probably is a decision pushed from senior management to local managers.
Local managers don't need the grief of managing on the shop floor, but will do as they are instructed.

[tramssirhc]

The usual suspects straight on to put the boot into the CWU , boring.

In fairness the CWU deserve it. It's an awful organisation.

Yeah, let’s all pull our subs and chuck the union. We don’t need a union. RM are are great employer, the CWU are holding us back. Without them we could be living a life of luxury with, dare I dream, commit to deliver, unpaid breaks, no representation, imposed pay rises, I could go on, but alas, the CWU are the ones preventing this utopia from happening

Exactly.
Never understood the constant bashing of an organisation thats sole existence is to make our working life better.
You can have opinions on their direction of travel of whether they are dealing with certain issues well enough but the way some on here speak about them you would think they were the enemy within.
Bizarre. If you hate them that much leave the union and be done with it.

It's classic trait of CWU loyalists to conflate critism with treachery. Only those not on the bag could consider the CWU a useful entity at the moment.

Criticism about elements of their effectiveness is different to just attacking the whole organisation at any opportunity.
Calling them an awful organisation suggest they are bad to the core.
If you are still in the union them why?
Why would you pay for something that you despise so much.

It is bad to the core. No representative should be sitting back and letting this happen. No one is saying no. The members, the reps, the branches. That's how bad the rot is.

Saying it's rotten to the core is strong.
Allot of reps are trying their best to serve the interest of it's members.
Its hard to get a grip of all these offices at once if they are being instructed to manage a certain way.
I agree it probably is a decision pushed from senior management to local managers.
Local managers don't need the grief of managing on the shop floor, but will do as they are instructed.

If you were a rep would you simply go along with whatever was going on? I wouldn't. I fully understand the reps are poorly trained and do not get trained to be industrially and politically independent. But ignorance is not an excuse. The workplace reps need to say enough is enough and take the area and div reps on. I understand its not easy as the branch will close ranks but I'd sooner fight them than be on my knees.

[clashcityrocker]

I understand its not easy as the branch will close ranks but I'd sooner fight them than be on my knees.

Why don't you then?
Instead of being a whining, boring gobshite on an internet forum, why don't you actually go out and fight rather than just talking about it on your ridiculous zoom meetings?

Remind me again, when are you going to save the working class?

[Mickeybrowneyes]

The usual suspects straight on to put the boot into the CWU , boring.

In fairness the CWU deserve it. It's an awful organisation.

Yeah, let’s all pull our subs and chuck the union. We don’t need a union. RM are are great employer, the CWU are holding us back. Without them we could be living a life of luxury with, dare I dream, commit to deliver, unpaid breaks, no representation, imposed pay rises, I could go on, but alas, the CWU are the ones preventing this utopia from happening

Exactly.
Never understood the constant bashing of an organisation thats sole existence is to make our working life better.
You can have opinions on their direction of travel of whether they are dealing with certain issues well enough but the way some on here speak about them you would think they were the enemy within.
Bizarre. If you hate them that much leave the union and be done with it.

It's classic trait of CWU loyalists to conflate critism with treachery. Only those not on the bag could consider the CWU a useful entity at the moment.

Criticism about elements of their effectiveness is different to just attacking the whole organisation at any opportunity.
Calling them an awful organisation suggest they are bad to the core.
If you are still in the union them why?
Why would you pay for something that you despise so much.

It is bad to the core. No representative should be sitting back and letting this happen. No one is saying no. The members, the reps, the branches. That's how bad the rot is.

Saying it's rotten to the core is strong.
Allot of reps are trying their best to serve the interest of it's members.
Its hard to get a grip of all these offices at once if they are being instructed to manage a certain way.
I agree it probably is a decision pushed from senior management to local managers.
Local managers don't need the grief of managing on the shop floor, but will do as they are instructed.

If you were a rep would you simply go along with whatever was going on? I wouldn't. I fully understand the reps are poorly trained and do not get trained to be industrially and politically independent. But ignorance is not an excuse. The workplace reps need to say enough is enough and take the area and div reps on. I understand its not easy as the branch will close ranks but I'd sooner fight them than be on my knees.

It's not as simple as that in reality.
We have a new owner around the corner and much of the negotiations will be with him not the the lot that are currently making these decisions to save money.
I know people are frustrated now but we need to see what the environment will be like after the takeover.
Reps can hold them accountable now and make sure sure they adhere to the writing in the current agreement but deliberately failing USO is hard to tackle.
What can you do if they don't care if it fails.

[scotchy1962]

I love this "rogue manager" quote, like they are some sort of underground movement within RM that do what they want and are sabotaging from the inside.
On the other hand they just might be as clueless as the rest of us on how to manage the s**t show that is RM over the last few years, maybe they are as pissed off as the rest of us.
Who knows and who cares, they reap what they sow from the top down. Managers all seem to have different ideas, so that puts the idea they have some sort of plan to bed, nobody is on the same page, so basically they are all doing their own thing which means..... they are all rogue.
I wait with bated breath to see if the union actually do something if and when RM start doing whatever they want again, because that is where i think it is heading when the USO reform goes to pot.

[Londonsburning]

I love this "rogue manager" quote, like they are some sort of underground movement within RM that do what they want and are sabotaging from the inside.
On the other hand they just might be as clueless as the rest of us on how to manage the s**t show that is RM over the last few years, maybe they are as pissed off as the rest of us.
Who knows and who cares, they reap what they sow from the top down. Managers all seem to have different ideas, so that puts the idea they have some sort of plan to bed, nobody is on the same page, so basically they are all doing their own thing which means..... they are all rogue.
I wait with bated breath to see if the union actually do something if and when RM start doing whatever they want again, because that is where i think it is heading when the USO reform goes to pot.

It was RM that coined the rogue manager spiel originally years ago. They know what they're doing and now the CWU are toeing the line like the good little lapdogs they have become unfortunately.

[Hyrrokkin]

What the hell is a 'outdoor assistant secretary' ?

Is there a 'indoor assistant secretary' ?

How much do they pay and how do i get on this freeloading gravy train !?

Just complete made up bullshit all of it

[GRS]

There are obviously people on this site who disagree with the structure of the CWU on an ideological basis.

That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but unfortunately it pulls every thread into an off topic political argument.

Years ago the moderators tried to resolve this by creating different forums for different topics and trying to keep people discussing the actual original post. Unfortunately some people just keep ignoring that in my opinion to the detriment of the entire site.

As a reminder this one is about the union's response to "rogue managers". My personal take on that is that I've been hearing that since I started in this job and from both sides and I'm not convinced that any of these managers have ever had that level of original thought so I have to conclude that they're being directed from above and either Tony is extremely gullible or simply feeding us the same s**t he's getting fed.

A bit of common sense, makes a pleasant change.
Of course they are being instructed, it’s office after office suffering the same scenarios.

I agree, I reckon woody is spot on with his observation that the managers are incapable of any original thoughts of their own, ours certainly isn't and to my knowledge has never done anything proactive whatsoever, it's got to be cascading from above

Oh 100% it cascades its way down from the top. Have you ever heard any conversation between your COM & his boss (OPL)? Jesus Christ it’s awful…….The OPL just dictates & bullies his way through the conference call. Honestly you would think he’s modelled himself on bloody Hitler but actually he’s just passing on exactly what he’s been told by his boss the ROD who no doubt is even more dictatorial. And he’s probably been bullied & dictated to by his boss etc etc. Horrific way to run a company, how the hell is anyone supposed to perform their job properly if they’re doing it in fear & lying to keep the heat off themselves.

[TopperGas]

There are obviously people on this site who disagree with the structure of the CWU on an ideological basis.

That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but unfortunately it pulls every thread into an off topic political argument.

Years ago the moderators tried to resolve this by creating different forums for different topics and trying to keep people discussing the actual original post. Unfortunately some people just keep ignoring that in my opinion to the detriment of the entire site.

As a reminder this one is about the union's response to "rogue managers". My personal take on that is that I've been hearing that since I started in this job and from both sides and I'm not convinced that any of these managers have ever had that level of original thought so I have to conclude that they're being directed from above and either Tony is extremely gullible or simply feeding us the same s**t he's getting fed.

A bit of common sense, makes a pleasant change.
Of course they are being instructed, it’s office after office suffering the same scenarios.

I agree, I reckon woody is spot on with his observation that the managers are incapable of any original thoughts of their own, ours certainly isn't and to my knowledge has never done anything proactive whatsoever, it's got to be cascading from above

Oh 100% it cascades its way down from the top. Have you ever heard any conversation between your COM & his boss (OPL)? Jesus Christ it’s awful…….The OPL just dictates & bullies his way through the conference call. Honestly you would think he’s modelled himself on bloody Hitler but actually he’s just passing on exactly what he’s been told by his boss the ROD who no doubt is even more dictatorial. And he’s probably been bullied & dictated to by his boss etc etc. Horrific way to run a company, how the hell is anyone supposed to perform their job properly if they’re doing it in fear & lying to keep the heat off themselves.

If we all know how RM is run why is the CWU rep now following the Simon Thompson line of rogue managers being to blame?

As others have suggested the CWU seem to have just become part of the management, not a union listening and acting on its members concerns.

[GRS]

There are obviously people on this site who disagree with the structure of the CWU on an ideological basis.

That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but unfortunately it pulls every thread into an off topic political argument.

Years ago the moderators tried to resolve this by creating different forums for different topics and trying to keep people discussing the actual original post. Unfortunately some people just keep ignoring that in my opinion to the detriment of the entire site.

As a reminder this one is about the union's response to "rogue managers". My personal take on that is that I've been hearing that since I started in this job and from both sides and I'm not convinced that any of these managers have ever had that level of original thought so I have to conclude that they're being directed from above and either Tony is extremely gullible or simply feeding us the same s**t he's getting fed.

A bit of common sense, makes a pleasant change.
Of course they are being instructed, it’s office after office suffering the same scenarios.

I agree, I reckon woody is spot on with his observation that the managers are incapable of any original thoughts of their own, ours certainly isn't and to my knowledge has never done anything proactive whatsoever, it's got to be cascading from above

Oh 100% it cascades its way down from the top. Have you ever heard any conversation between your COM & his boss (OPL)? Jesus Christ it’s awful…….The OPL just dictates & bullies his way through the conference call. Honestly you would think he’s modelled himself on bloody Hitler but actually he’s just passing on exactly what he’s been told by his boss the ROD who no doubt is even more dictatorial. And he’s probably been bullied & dictated to by his boss etc etc. Horrific way to run a company, how the hell is anyone supposed to perform their job properly if they’re doing it in fear & lying to keep the heat off themselves.

If we all know how RM is run why is the CWU rep now following the Simon Thompson line of rogue managers being to blame?

As others have suggested the CWU seem to have just become part of the management, not a union listening and acting on its members concerns.

He knows exactly what’s going on. It’s just a smoke screen to the members to make out they’re trying to reign RM in on things. They’re all in it together - management & CWU covering each other’s arses & to stay in situ until the takeover & make out of it what they can.