Pda actuals

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 16 Jul 2019, 20:46

Asuming Postie A hasnt quite worked his full day id be giving him a bit more to do on his return and paying extended duty time to the otjer two.

I specifically asked you not to indulge in fantasy, this isn't about reallocation of workload, the point being made earlier in the thread concerned paying someone 10 hrs for only working 8 hrs so the question still stands, how much would you PAY postie A, B and C?

Gasman11 · Post by **Gasman11** » 16 Jul 2019, 20:51

number one wrote:
Gasman11 wrote:
number one wrote:
Gasman11 wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
8 hours in 10 hours ive already answered, it was an exceptionally busy day for the OP and his normal duty took him 2 hours longer than usual.
No you haven't.
That's 10 hrs work in 10 hrs.
You're making up fictitious exceptionally busy days to justify paying 10 hrs but what I'm talking about is doing 8 hrs work in 10 hrs.

I'll make it simpler for you.

Three identical duties with identical mail.

Postie A completes it in 7 hrs.
Postie B completes it in 8 hrs.
Postie C completes it in 9 hrs.

Bearing in mind they've all done the same amount of workload who should be paid what.
Don't make any assumptions about any of them, they're all "doing the job properly".
Asuming Postie A hasnt quite worked his full day id be giving him a bit more to do on his return and paying extended duty time to the otjer two.
Where do you magic the extra work from?
One of the posties wasnt sure whether he'd be able to complete his own duty and have enough time left for lapsing so has left it behind in the office to collect it later on. He rang me at 1pm and said he wouldnt have time to lapse and lo and behold Postie A has just walked in so i dont have to do it now. Miracle.
Next day Postie A realises if he gets back early he has to do other people’s work so he goes slow. Then what?

Postie A starts to feel the emotional and physical benefits of doing the job in a more considered and diligent way.

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 16 Jul 2019, 20:52

Jesus wept.

number one · Post by **number one** » 16 Jul 2019, 20:57

But who does the extra work?????

I’m guessing you don’t have the answers so are deliberately not answering the question

Gasman11 · Post by **Gasman11** » 16 Jul 2019, 20:58

Woody Guthrie wrote:
Asuming Postie A hasnt quite worked his full day id be giving him a bit more to do on his return and paying extended duty time to the otjer two.
I specifically asked you not to indulge in fantasy, this isn't about reallocation of workload, the point being made earlier in the thread concerned paying someone 10 hrs for only working 8 hrs so the question still stands, how much would you PAY postie A, B and C?

I would specifically pay Postie A his normal days pay and other 2 would get the same plus the additional amount for whatever extended duty time they specifically worked. Im going to draw a line on this as we are going around in circles here; we have differing views on this subject and only time will tell as to how things are going to properly implemented.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 16 Jul 2019, 21:25

Gasman11 wrote:
Woody Guthrie wrote:
Asuming Postie A hasnt quite worked his full day id be giving him a bit more to do on his return and paying extended duty time to the otjer two.
I specifically asked you not to indulge in fantasy, this isn't about reallocation of workload, the point being made earlier in the thread concerned paying someone 10 hrs for only working 8 hrs so the question still stands, how much would you PAY postie A, B and C?
I would specifically pay Postie A his normal days pay and other 2 would get the same plus the additional amount for whatever extended duty time they specifically worked. Im going to draw a line on this as we are going around in circles here; we have differing views on this subject and only time will tell as to how things are going to properly implemented.

Postie A should be sent out with 2hrs extra work. Job and finish went years ago (Pay & Mod Agreement). Them 2 hrs are an easy 2hrs for higher up to remove from the office

number one · Post by **number one** » 16 Jul 2019, 21:34

Job and finish is alive and well. If it went years ago why are we even talking about it on this thread?

Nickvilla20 · Post by **Nickvilla20** » 16 Jul 2019, 21:43

Job and finish is still alive at our place to I got back before time today and I was the last one back and everybody who didn’t have an SA went home.

Ozzvaldo · Post by **Ozzvaldo** » 16 Jul 2019, 22:04

Job and finish is NOT alive and well in my office. We have to sit and wait until our finish time under the watch of a manager....Saturday excepted of course, when the person in the locker is instructed to write down the names of anybody that sneaks off early.

sirchewey · Post by **sirchewey** » 16 Jul 2019, 22:58

I think some people are underestimating the ability of the technology RM will be introducing over the coming years. It's evident that currently this technology is lacking in many places (PDAs currently undergoing updates on many levels which I have expanded upon in previous post) but the data which RM are able to access is not.

Let's look at the bigger picture and not necessarily get bogged down with just the PDA actuals: The database systems going forward will be hugely powerful and allow RM to accurately see what is going on at varying levels from acceptance to delivery.

When all mail and parcels are sorted at MCs, each delivery will have it's own accurate volume figures and delivery time allocation which managers can use to better the efficiency of the office on any given day, rather than blanket volume data. This doesn't necessarily mean that any specific delivery will be revised or deemed to be achievable in any way but will give managers good figures to utilise the workforce more effectively. Going forward, you have to just see your delivery as workload rather than taking any ownership. People coming back off of delivery early will be sent out to help posties with higher volumes of mail and parcels to complete duties. I don't think this is unreasonable.

If posties with lower volumes decide to drag their heels rather than work their allocated hours effectively then this accurate data could be used to cross examine their usual performance and if found to be unreasonable, asked questions as to why they were unable to complete in a shorter time frame. Again, this is not unreasonable IMO. Posties who are deemed to be slower than average may be asked to attend appraisals to ascertain any issues surrounding their performance and appropriate measures put in place to ensure their performance is optimised whether it is a requirement for further training or referrals to OH.

This all reiterates the reasons as to why it is important to do your delivery as prescribed as the current PDA actuals will form the basis of delivery estimates and revisions going forward. Yes, this will change depending on resigns and individual performance etc, but the utilisation of this technology makes the allocation of workload on a daily basis fluid between posties and give management the live data necessary to increase efficiency. The workload will be seen wholly as office based and not as individual.

Live PDA actuals will be assessed whilst you are out on delivery and I can see people ahead of time getting a call from management to go direct to duties for assistance before returning to the office.

Using this system, the chances of working considerable overtime, if any, on any given day would be minimal as everyone will effectively work close to the same hours.

Someone's question (apologies for not quoting) regarding what you would pay postie A, B or C is irrelevant as under this system, they would all work the same hours.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 16 Jul 2019, 23:05

sirchewey wrote:When all mail and parcels are sorted at MCs, each delivery will have it's own accurate volume figures and delivery time allocation which managers can use to better the efficiency of the office on any given day, rather than blanket volume data.

That'll require all non machinable items to have barcodes. Machinable mail should be able to generate the info when the machine sorts it. If when the next USO review comes up it allows for a 3 day delivery span for non SD items then in theory RM could look at introducing technology to have MCs sort all items to walk level and at the same time the system could calculate how long a walk should take

sirchewey · Post by **sirchewey** » 16 Jul 2019, 23:27

SpacePhoenix wrote:
sirchewey wrote:When all mail and parcels are sorted at MCs, each delivery will have it's own accurate volume figures and delivery time allocation which managers can use to better the efficiency of the office on any given day, rather than blanket volume data.
That'll require all non machinable items to have barcodes. Machinable mail should be able to generate the info when the machine sorts it. If when the next USO review comes up it allows for a 3 day delivery span for non SD items then in theory RM could look at introducing technology to have MCs sort all items to walk level and at the same time the system could calculate how long a walk should take

Forgive me, my knowledge of the ins and outs of MCs is more limited than yours. I do know that they are pushing for more barcodes on more products going forward and they have been looking into MCs walk sorting all items. The issues that they face are the hours lost in DOs due to manual sorting and prep and the increase in delivery times to compensate which would be physically impossible for the majority of the workforce over a 5 day week. The only way this would be achievable would be to split letterboxable deliveries and packets across each shift... (haven't we heard that one recently?!......clue by any chance) However, if their figures on the reduction in mail volumes and increase in parcel deliveries is accurate then I can see this becoming a cost effective and efficient way of delivering the service going forward.

Surely though, with the technological advances in these machines, more items are becoming machineable. Could they not aid this by just requiring a change in how items are presented into the system in order to compensate? This would probably be a more cost effective solution.

number one · Post by **number one** » 17 Jul 2019, 06:12

Where are you dreaming all this up from? Managers can’t manage now, your proposals would require 1 manager for every 3/4 members of staff to keep an eye on them every minute of every day

Woody Guthrie · Post by **Woody Guthrie** » 17 Jul 2019, 06:35

Postie A should be sent out with 2hrs extra work. Job and finish went years ago (Pay & Mod Agreement). Them 2 hrs are an easy 2hrs for higher up to remove from the office

Who said Postie A finished 2 hrs early?
I asked how much you would pay the three posties with different performance levels.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 17 Jul 2019, 09:30

number one wrote:Where are you dreaming all this up from? Managers can’t manage now, your proposals would require 1 manager for every 3/4 members of staff to keep an eye on them every minute of every day

No it doesn't, just needs one to look at the PDA data, or for the DOM to have a barcode which everyone has to scan back at the DO when they get back