Lovejoy thinks he has won the debate but a lot of us think Dvbuk55 has kicked Lovejoy's arse.
We need to take a poll to see who's right. Or, maybe we should call in ACAS, make the two parties hold the debate in secret...
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DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
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MinisterofCucumber
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
"You wanna f**k with me? Okay. You wanna play rough? Okay. Say hello to my little friend!" - Tony Montana
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POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
Whoaaa there guys it's not about winners and losers (Can't believe i've just written that LOL).
Was in part a good debate,let's not get silly.
DV my original post was not aimed at you,it was for every one in this thread.
Was in part a good debate,let's not get silly.
DV my original post was not aimed at you,it was for every one in this thread.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
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realmichael
- Posts: 151
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
what i would like to know is will the workshops on geo etc, be completed before we vote.
because without this info. you can not make a informed decision. surely the ballot should have taken place after all the outstanding issues had been resolved!
because without this info. you can not make a informed decision. surely the ballot should have taken place after all the outstanding issues had been resolved!
"Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains."
"Without doubt, machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers."
"An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory"
"Without doubt, machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers."
"An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory"
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dvbuk55
- EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
Postman this is your forum, you make the rules I take no umbrage whatsoever at anything anyone says, tomorrow is always a new day. No one is in any doubt that I stand firmly in the no camp, lovejoy in the yes - we stand in different corners, I'm no stranger to that, I feel I justifiably defend my position - this is not life threatening whether it be no or yes - as my Dad used to say, worse things happen at sea.POSTMAN wrote:Whoaaa there guys it's not about winners and losers (Can't believe i've just written that LOL).
Was in part a good debate,let's not get silly.
DV my original post was not aimed at you,it was for every one in this thread.
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Pat Ostman
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- Location: In the Line Managers office being screwed over.
Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
dvbuk55 wrote:Thanks for that support lads - maybe you should have pmd me like lovejoys mates
Seriously though I have lovejoys card marked he hasn't any response to the important issues that are outstanding - my one regret is that the Yes vote may well win and will I be disappointed? No of course ........................Yes of course I'll be disappointed but lovejoy has said he will not gloat if it is a Yes - well let me just say if it is a NO vote I will be swinging from the chandelier and gloating like a bast*rd. Well maybe gloating is too strong a word but I will be happy knowing that there is still hope for a fair and equitable agreement and really that is what I would like to see.
Run, rabbit run. Dig that hole, forget the sun.
And when at last the work is done. Don't sit down, it's time to dig another one
And when at last the work is done. Don't sit down, it's time to dig another one
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dvbuk55
- EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
Hang on a mo there mick - you do not mean - NOTHING IS AGREED UNTIL EVERYTHING IS AGREED - do you, because that sounds pretty familiar?realmichael wrote:what i would like to know is will the workshops on geo etc, be completed before we vote.
because without this info. you can not make a informed decision. surely the ballot should have taken place after all the outstanding issues had been resolved!
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jessicarabbit
- Posts: 619
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
POSTMAN - small tiny prob the time is wrong on the old clock thingumy. Clocks went forward last weekend. Other thn that great debating area shame it all to often gets personal only time wii tell if this was the deal of the century or if in 3 years time we all will gather in chat rooms and tell stories about when we had a national postal industry
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realmichael
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
i smell a rat with this workshop stuff.
get the vote out of the way and then forget it and leave it all down to a "local agreement"
the whole deal stinks imho
get the vote out of the way and then forget it and leave it all down to a "local agreement"
the whole deal stinks imho
"Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains."
"Without doubt, machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers."
"An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory"
"Without doubt, machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers."
"An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory"
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dvbuk55
- EX ROYAL MAIL
- Posts: 16650
- Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
- Gender: Male
Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
Here is a serious question in light of your view about the workshops or no apparent workshops as yet - do you, from past experience, think that local agreements is a conduit for further bullying in unrepresented or poorly represented areas and please be honest - my opinion I will withhold for now.realmichael wrote:i smell a rat with this workshop stuff.
get the vote out of the way and then forget it and leave it all down to a "local agreement"
the whole deal stinks imho
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lovejoy
- Posts: 1255
- Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 12:59
Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
The reasons I didnt reply to DVbuks points about the agreement were because I was short on time but mainly because it was absolutely nothing to do with the thread and was his way of diverting attention from the fact that his fantasy thoughts on the aftermath of a no vote.
I don't really know why I am bothering because some people don't want the answers or the debate for some unknown reason.
Dvbuk said The 75/25 split is to be policed nationally, it is currently 79/21 so does that mean job losses, and how is the figure to be arrived at?
The 79/21 will move to 75/25. How anyone can deny that this is excellent negotiation given that RM wanted the dutch model 25/75 is beyond me. That figure will be monitored nationally at quarterly meetings. Some of the reasons it wasn't an office by office 75/25...... Well some units have stood up for themselves and have FT % well above 75 so why would they want to move downwards?
Also with some of the new innovative duty structures units may chose to increase part-time staff to increase the number of Saturdays off... a solid ratio would have hindered this.
Dvbuk said If it means job losses how is job security a part of this agreement?
Yes there will be job losses. Nobody has ever denied that but they will all come as part of natural wastage / VRs. And don't come back with you line about how it doesnt guarantee no compulsary redundancies. The MTSF never has. This 'get out' is aimed at situations beyond the control of anyone and usually reserved for managers!
Dvbuk said Is the projected figure for job losses 24,000 - Higson has already said it will mean fewer jobs - if it means job security for the ones who are left, how about the ones who aren't - do they fall into the category of winners or losers? How long will the ones who are left last after this 3 year agreement?
The only people leaving the business will be those who chose to. Does this make them a loser? No it doesnt it makes them someone chosing to lose and on better terms than those on offer prior to the dispute. At the end of the agreement who knows where we will be? Do you? We cannot judge this agreement on fantasy views of what may or may not happen. You were saying earlier you didn't want a 3 year deal now you are complaining about what happens after that!
Dvbuk said You conveniently state that there is no payment for D2D but a new delivery supplement - so what replaces the payment for D2D - is it the the remainder of the balance from the loss of the ESA? Which would be £8 pro rata for unlimited workload - or am I misrepresenting the figures - one of us must be?
Nothing money wise replaces the d2d payment. I have repeated this and yet you still havent got it. The CWU have managed to capture all the monies currently being paid out on d2d as part of a new permanent supplement paid 52 weeks per year.
On top of this the CWU have managed to get d2d into measured workload which will protect job.... surely as someone who professes to care so much about others you must agree that it is the right thing to do by protecting jobs ahead of a payment that is not even guaranteed week to week.
Dvbuk said The revision tools which will determine the workload aren't ready yet - so will they be issued before the ballot?
As far as I understand the meetings will take place in the next week and guidelines issued to branches / reps. I am not sure if they will be out before the ballot is the honest answer but RM have agreed to push no revisions until they are agreed to this gives us a very strong position.
Dvbuk said The fabled 1 in 4 Saturdays maybe even 1 in 3 Matrix, which is as we speak still be worked on, will that be ready before the ballot?
Yes this will be ready this week. i saw some ideas last week and options are there for 1in4, 1in3, 1in2 and all saturdays off.
Dvbuk said Were any of the advisers to the negotiating team ever delivery officers in recent years or ever or even seen a delivery office?
Yes every single one of them has worked in a DO. Very sad that you have to resort to this level. On the other hand have you ever been involved in a set of national negotiations against the current backdrop?
Dvbuk said Oh one last thing - Scunthorpe lost 4-2 to the Seasiders - shame - now I wonder if there is message in that scoreline?
Just like my team Dvbuk, you let me down with the cheapshots
I don't really know why I am bothering because some people don't want the answers or the debate for some unknown reason.
Dvbuk said The 75/25 split is to be policed nationally, it is currently 79/21 so does that mean job losses, and how is the figure to be arrived at?
The 79/21 will move to 75/25. How anyone can deny that this is excellent negotiation given that RM wanted the dutch model 25/75 is beyond me. That figure will be monitored nationally at quarterly meetings. Some of the reasons it wasn't an office by office 75/25...... Well some units have stood up for themselves and have FT % well above 75 so why would they want to move downwards?
Also with some of the new innovative duty structures units may chose to increase part-time staff to increase the number of Saturdays off... a solid ratio would have hindered this.
Dvbuk said If it means job losses how is job security a part of this agreement?
Yes there will be job losses. Nobody has ever denied that but they will all come as part of natural wastage / VRs. And don't come back with you line about how it doesnt guarantee no compulsary redundancies. The MTSF never has. This 'get out' is aimed at situations beyond the control of anyone and usually reserved for managers!
Dvbuk said Is the projected figure for job losses 24,000 - Higson has already said it will mean fewer jobs - if it means job security for the ones who are left, how about the ones who aren't - do they fall into the category of winners or losers? How long will the ones who are left last after this 3 year agreement?
The only people leaving the business will be those who chose to. Does this make them a loser? No it doesnt it makes them someone chosing to lose and on better terms than those on offer prior to the dispute. At the end of the agreement who knows where we will be? Do you? We cannot judge this agreement on fantasy views of what may or may not happen. You were saying earlier you didn't want a 3 year deal now you are complaining about what happens after that!
Dvbuk said You conveniently state that there is no payment for D2D but a new delivery supplement - so what replaces the payment for D2D - is it the the remainder of the balance from the loss of the ESA? Which would be £8 pro rata for unlimited workload - or am I misrepresenting the figures - one of us must be?
Nothing money wise replaces the d2d payment. I have repeated this and yet you still havent got it. The CWU have managed to capture all the monies currently being paid out on d2d as part of a new permanent supplement paid 52 weeks per year.
On top of this the CWU have managed to get d2d into measured workload which will protect job.... surely as someone who professes to care so much about others you must agree that it is the right thing to do by protecting jobs ahead of a payment that is not even guaranteed week to week.
Dvbuk said The revision tools which will determine the workload aren't ready yet - so will they be issued before the ballot?
As far as I understand the meetings will take place in the next week and guidelines issued to branches / reps. I am not sure if they will be out before the ballot is the honest answer but RM have agreed to push no revisions until they are agreed to this gives us a very strong position.
Dvbuk said The fabled 1 in 4 Saturdays maybe even 1 in 3 Matrix, which is as we speak still be worked on, will that be ready before the ballot?
Yes this will be ready this week. i saw some ideas last week and options are there for 1in4, 1in3, 1in2 and all saturdays off.
Dvbuk said Were any of the advisers to the negotiating team ever delivery officers in recent years or ever or even seen a delivery office?
Yes every single one of them has worked in a DO. Very sad that you have to resort to this level. On the other hand have you ever been involved in a set of national negotiations against the current backdrop?
Dvbuk said Oh one last thing - Scunthorpe lost 4-2 to the Seasiders - shame - now I wonder if there is message in that scoreline?
Just like my team Dvbuk, you let me down with the cheapshots
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fishtank
- Posts: 19732
- Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
Lovejoy wrote
We cannot judge this agreement on fantasy views of what may or may not happen
Best part of a post of the day.
Now if we could only get Dave & Bob to understand...........
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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lovejoy
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- Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 12:59
Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
cheap point scoringfishtank wrote:Lovejoy wrote
We cannot judge this agreement on fantasy views of what may or may not happen
Best part of a post of the day.
Now if we could only get Dave & Bob to understand...........
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gb93
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Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
Yeah rise above it lovejoy dont let yourself resort to cheap shots heaven forbid 
This ain't no baseball game, you get only one chance and you blew it.
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lovejoy
- Posts: 1255
- Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 12:59
Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
To be honest I shouldn't but when you are on the end of it for so long it's nice to slip a few in.....gb93 wrote:Yeah rise above it lovejoy dont let yourself resort to cheap shots heaven forbid
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lovejoy
- Posts: 1255
- Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 12:59
Re: DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO
I am off to chill out for the evening....Good health to all