London Dispute Update

[drb]

DV the offer the CWU gave was still closures. The difference between this and other closures was "people" issues. The Mount have been told it's workforce will go to a high percentage of part time. How is this the same as any other closure? The CWU had full involvement with other MC closures. Even down to night shift workers who do not drive. Regardless of the doubters,we are dealing with plain old bullies here. Bullies always get my back up.

[drb]

Fishtank. At some point you will realise that the BTA agreement DOES NOT DELIVER ON REVISION FOR SAVINGS. There are elements within the business that do not like this. They want us to walk away from it.

[dvbuk55]

DV the offer the CWU gave was still closures. The difference between this and other closures was "people" issues. The Mount have been told it's workforce will go to a high percentage of part time. How is this the same as any other closure? The CWU had full involvement with other MC closures. Even down to night shift workers who do not drive. Regardless of the doubters,we are dealing with plain old bullies here. Bullies always get my back up.

Well what's different to London having a plethora of part timers and any delivery office in the country? How do you think that we have managed the workload to workforce for the last four years? The longer the debate goes on the less support there will be, as many DOs are running at 50% and more part timers. It is a reasonable assumption that the changes across the country have had little effect on London and now the harsh reality is finally reaching you there is a hue and cry. Closures have been a fact of life for some considerable time and has been discussed with and agreed by the CWU.............even London.

[fishtank]

Fishtank. At some point you will realise that the BTA agreement DOES NOT DELIVER ON REVISION FOR SAVINGS. There are elements within the business that do not like this. They want us to walk away from it.

I am well aware of what it does and doesn't deliver drb.
I've been sitting in the middle of a fully integrated sequenced/delivery methods revision for 7 months.
It has never produced savings and has cost the business a small fortune but the landscape has changed since then and revisions are now "self-starters" using capacity plans,not providing weight off the shoulder,not providing 1 in 4 saturdays,not providing opportunities for full-time progression.......basing the revisions on SAVINGS.
This was an inevitable progression from the BTA because like it or not Royal Mail expected savings from the revisions and when they didn't get them....they moved the goalposts...the union was warned.

[drb]

Fair enough Fishtank,you have hit a wall. However I have spoken to a fair few divisional reps and I was flabbergasted on how many local reps have not used the IR framework. I am not saying you have not,but there are quite a few. In fact it was scarey! What message does this send out to the rank & file?

To be honest Phase one of any revision should not have been entered until "all elements of the interim agreement where resolved"

[dvbuk55]

Fair enough Fishtank,you have hit a wall. However I have spoken to a fair few divisional reps and I was flabbergasted on how many local reps have not used the IR framework. I am not saying you have not,but there are quite a few. In fact it was scarey! What message does this send out to the rank & file?

To be honest Phase one of any revision should not have been entered until "all elements of the interim agreement where resolved"

The Div Reps should perhaps get out of their shell and come and visit DOs..............I would imagine that there is less than 10% of my office know who the Div Rep is...................the last time we had one of the exalted ones down was 2007...................the message the rank and file get.........FU jack we're OK.

[labbloke]

DV an FT, I agree you have many issues that are warranted and action needs to be taken.

But christ almighty you dont half moan a lot.

[drb]

DV. I could not agree more! They are out of date. However I am having trouble even getting a youth rep let alone a decent IR rep. Still, I will keep going. The future is everything here. However,a different thread eh?

[Big Daz]

The Div Reps should perhaps get out of their shell and come and visit DOs..............I would imagine that there is less than 10% of my office know who the Div Rep is...................the last time we had one of the exalted ones down was 2007...................the message the rank and file get.........FU jack we're OK.

Only see a DR when something goes wrong, perhaps we need more of them?

As for knowing who the Dr's are I would say my D.O is like yours. Again perhaps we need more of them.

[mailmonkey]

The Div Reps should perhaps get out of their shell and come and visit DOs..............I would imagine that there is less than 10% of my office know who the Div Rep is...................the last time we had one of the exalted ones down was 2007...................the message the rank and file get.........FU jack we're OK.

Hahahahahahahah.


HahahahahahahahhahHAHAHHAHA.



The ONLY time I've seen a div rep was when he came down to BULLY our members into signing off this revision, earlier this year.

Called our dep rep a pr1ck, told us that the majority ( he actually quoted 60%) of revisions were successful, dismissed all our concerns about workload and H&S as timewasting, or as matters he would personally deal with; told us him and Area rep would be with us "every step of the way" if we signed it off.

lol, the fecker won't even show his face or return calls to our local rep. I hope he's hanging his head in shame somewhere, but doubt it somehow.

Pair of W*nkers

Not seen hide nor hair since.

[Martin Walsh]

There are only 18 divisional reps and 9 subsitutes and we are more or less fire fighters we go where the problems are. I like to do members meetings and I do lots but I suppose its is easier where I am . However the key is that the Branch and area reps are the first port of call for local offices.

Look we can all be critical over whether there should have been lump sums linked to revisons or not. I think there should have been especially after Royal Mail stated that they would never pay for savings again. However just because there is a lump sum attached does not mean you have to accept a revision which is crap and unacceptable. We have not. Plenty other areas have not either thats why the majority of intregrated revisions have not been introduced.

Those of you who have and now complain about the revison should question your role. Did you do enough to stop the revision being introduced ? Its no good getting behind a keyboard and putting Royal Mail to right if you did not do enough to stop a s**t revison coming into your office. Stop moaning , they has been no executive action and you could have used the IR framework and no where in the agreement does it say there is an agreement to 100BSI.

The arguement in London is different from what has happened in other mail centre clousures. Normally people can move with the work which means that you avoid complusory redundnacies. In London`s case there are currently 3321 people who work in the three mail centres in London and there are only 1855 jobs under Royal Mail`s plan. Which means one in three people do not have a job. They do not all want VR only 300 have requested a formal quote which gives an indivdual two weeks to make a final decision. Spin it whatever way you want , every one who looks at this in a serious way can see that this will lead to complusory redundnacies.

To the credit of other areas and divisions they have started to communicate the issue with their members in line with emergency motion E6 and unless the talks make progress we will be announcing strike action. We will then activate the full terms of E6 and we all know what will happen maybe not in delviery land but it will kick off.

[mailmonkey]

Those of you who have and now complain about the revison should question your role. Did you do enough to stop the revision being introduced ? Its no good getting behind a keyboard and putting Royal Mail to right if you did not do enough to stop a s**t revison coming into your office. Stop moaning , they has been no executive action and you could have used the IR framework and no where in the agreement does it say there is an agreement to 100BSI.

Our div rep told us if we didn't sign it off it would be brought in under EA anyway and he would turn his back on us.

He bulllied members into accepting it, and brushed aside any concerns as being invalid.

What else can members do when div and area reps behave like this.

We tried telling the area and div reps it was a "s**t revision", your words dingo, but we were told to SIGN IT OFF.

I trust CWU area and div level as much as I trust RM management, really, and I'm very very sad that this is the case.

[dvbuk55]

The Div Reps should perhaps get out of their shell and come and visit DOs..............I would imagine that there is less than 10% of my office know who the Div Rep is...................the last time we had one of the exalted ones down was 2007...................the message the rank and file get.........FU jack we're OK.

Only see a DR when something goes wrong, perhaps we need more of them?

As for knowing who the Dr's are I would say my D.O is like yours. Again perhaps we need more of them.

Perhaps we need more of something, but I don't think it's Divisional Reps.

[dvbuk55]

The arguement in London is different from what has happened in other mail centre clousures. Normally people can move with the work which means that you avoid complusory redundnacies. In London`s case there are currently 3321 people who work in the three mail centres in London and there are only 1855 jobs under Royal Mail`s plan. Which means one in three people do not have a job. They do not all want VR only 300 have requested a formal quote which gives an indivdual two weeks to make a final decision. Spin it whatever way you want , every one who looks at this in a serious way can see that this will lead to complusory redundnacies.

To the credit of other areas and divisions they have started to communicate the issue with their members in line with emergency motion E6 and unless the talks make progress we will be announcing strike action. We will then activate the full terms of E6 and we all know what will happen maybe not in delviery land but it will kick off.

So looking at the figures you have quoted there's roughly 700 people who potentially face compulsory redundancy unless you are not including part time hours available but not acceptable. Now under the agreed procedure they should overarchingly be avoided but faced with the stark facts they cannot be avoided in this case and so in that respect it is unlike anywhere else. Yes you are right dingo, in delivery land we have undergone revisions, accepted part time hours and later delivery times and mechanisation and represent about 120,000 of the total workforce so are they to be held ransom for IA.

As for Area and Div communications with their workforce over this issue, which by and large doesn't affect them, they seem more than reluctant to discuss the issues on the agreement and the problems faced by those members that are directly affected and are supposed to represent.

[thelastpostie]

If all the vacancies are taken up, London will still have a considerable surplus, so the threat of CR is there . I also stated in a previous post that some people are being given no alternative other than take E/VR as what RM consider a reasonable job offer is something they just cannot do, tantamount to constructive dismissal

Well you see lastpostie if you do not have the work, you do not have enough VR volunteers, you have surplus workforce to the workload........your answer would be to go for a national ballot is it? London is not the only place where MCs have closed and people have been given Hobsons Choice, they too had to make a hard choice, VR, deliveries or extended travel time. Their choice did not extend to a ballot because the closures were agreed.

I come from an area who has a branch which is not in touch with the membership in any shape or form, they probably voted to support the motion at conference but they aren't going to be able to deliver. TBH I would be extremely surprised if any of them show up at our office. They are a lickspittle bunch who agree to anything that keeps their arses on a seat.

dvb, the work is there, its RM that aren't allowing staff to move with it, so there is no surplus staff to workload. My answer is that RM need to sit down with CWU and reach a fair and amicable agreement that properly deals with the "people" issues. I'm not sure of the legal implications of a national ballot and whether RM would challenge it in the courts, but do I favour a national ballot in principle? Yes. Failing that, if London announces IA dates and the work is diverted to other MC's, will they willingly do the work and perform O/T. As the "London is not the only place where MCs have been closed" mantra thats being trotted out ad nauseam, its been pointed out ad infinitum that London is being handled completely differently than any other area of the country, so I think that matter needs to be laid to rest. Additionally, London has already witnessed the closure of numerous MC's already. So its not a case of Hobsons Choice, more like being thrown out of an aeroplane without a parachute.
We can continue to plough the same furrow, but sooner or later we'll be faced with with a choice of whether we stick together..or not.

"THERE IS A TIDE IN THE AFFAIRS OF MEN,WHICH, TAKEN AT THE FLOOD LEADs ON TO FORTUNE"