The actuals

[DrSatan]

I’m sure if I wanted some painting doing on my house and got quotes off two painters who charge by the day. If one says it would take them 2 days but the other says he could do exactly the same job but in one day, I’d go for the one that can do it in one day.

So assuming their day rate is the same the faster painter would be doing the same work for half the pay.

So basically your saying that faster posties who finish early should be paid less?

No, what I’m saying is we should own the workload. You will be paid 8hrs a day for x amount of work. If it takes you 6 or 10 hours you still get paid the 8.

Be careful what you wish for!

RM wanted that at first for a reason. Your workload would increase, D2D no doubt would increase, seeing as it would not cost anything extra in terms of time so they would sell that product even cheaper. Xmas you'd be clearing daily. No set finish time? You sure you want all that?

[number one]

I’m sure if I wanted some painting doing on my house and got quotes off two painters who charge by the day. If one says it would take them 2 days but the other says he could do exactly the same job but in one day, I’d go for the one that can do it in one day.

So assuming their day rate is the same the faster painter would be doing the same work for half the pay.

So basically your saying that faster posties who finish early should be paid less?

No, what I’m saying is we should own the workload. You will be paid 8hrs a day for x amount of work. If it takes you 6 or 10 hours you still get paid the 8.

Be careful what you wish for!

RM wanted that at first for a reason. Your workload would increase, D2D no doubt would increase, seeing as it would not cost anything extra in terms of time so they would sell that product even cheaper. Xmas you'd be clearing daily. No set finish time? You sure you want all that?

You would have a set finish time and going over would be for no pay so you finish on your time. On lighter days if you are quick you finish before your time. The workmload would be an agreed standard so on time like xmas they would pay extra.

[DrSatan]

I’m sure if I wanted some painting doing on my house and got quotes off two painters who charge by the day. If one says it would take them 2 days but the other says he could do exactly the same job but in one day, I’d go for the one that can do it in one day.

So assuming their day rate is the same the faster painter would be doing the same work for half the pay.

So basically your saying that faster posties who finish early should be paid less?

No, what I’m saying is we should own the workload. You will be paid 8hrs a day for x amount of work. If it takes you 6 or 10 hours you still get paid the 8.

Be careful what you wish for!

RM wanted that at first for a reason. Your workload would increase, D2D no doubt would increase, seeing as it would not cost anything extra in terms of time so they would sell that product even cheaper. Xmas you'd be clearing daily. No set finish time? You sure you want all that?

You would have a set finish time and going over would be for no pay so you finish on your time. On lighter days if you are quick you finish before your time. The workmload would be an agreed standard so on time like xmas they would pay extra.

I may have read that wrong but from what you've said, I understand it like this. If its heavy you just finish at your contract/duty time? Then if it's lighter you just go home early? So what's in it for RM?

The idea of owning the workload is that you 'must' complete the duty even if it's a really heavy day.

We get a 200 bonus at Xmas (pro rota for PT), that would be the 'extra'?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Piece rate - No thanks that's a slippery slope - at least the working all paid hours agreement mean as both sides should know the score, and what is the likely outcome if either side decides to abide by or enforce the agreement in full.

[LaggyBand]

The likely outcome is far more chilled out and less tired / knackered posties, and much increased labour costs for RM.

Just a prediction but probably true.

[citypostie]

The likely outcome is far more chilled out and less tired / knackered posties, and much increased labour costs for RM.

Just a prediction but probably true.

And the much increased labour costs is why when push comes to shove they will shelve the idea of stopping ghosting etc. If they really push the idea of working all your hours and we dont care what you do in that time as some on here are saying they want the extra costs just to get the job done will be massive. I find it hard to believe a company so focused on efficiency, savings and paying dividends are going to actively encourage its workforce to slow down and do less work! Which is exactly what will happen as soon as they try to put more work on "runners" if they make a bit of time. Id only ever be sent back out once and then id be sure i got back bang on time everyday, and anyone with any sense would do the same. I can sometimes make 30 minutes, is it really worth all the hassle involved to stop me gaining that ?

[azza30]

This whole thread sums up why Posties get bullied and shafted by management - It is because the lucky few who have the easier rounds and don't do the jobs properly claim to be more efficient than others. I've been a reserve for well over a year and have covered 50 % of the WALKS ( Not marches, strolls, jogs, canters etc etc) and I can tell you that the easier rounds are only just complete-able in the time allowed on a non heavy day if done properly. But if the job isn't done properly on a non heavy day they can be a piece of pisz.

But there are difficult, longer rounds where even not doing the job properly is impossible to complete in the given time.

So yes - finish an easier round in less time than is allowed for then more fool you. Yes you should be sent back out. Otherwise do the job properly. It is not more efficient to Royal Mail if you deliver the same amount of post and are still paid the hours you would normally be paid but finish early. You still cost royal mail the same. What is more efficient is those who finish quickly and take out more post in the contracted hours. If you don't like taking more slow down, use the trolley, take your break, don't cut across gardens, dont read and walk, take photos, fill in cards properly.

But if you do the job properly and still get back early then the walk is to short and needs revision. Simple

[number one]

This whole thread sums up why Posties get bullied and shafted by management - It is because the lucky few who have the easier rounds and don't do the jobs properly claim to be more efficient than others. I've been a reserve for well over a year and have covered 50 % of the WALKS ( Not marches, strolls, jogs, canters etc etc) and I can tell you that the easier rounds are only just complete-able in the time allowed on a non heavy day if done properly. But if the job isn't done properly on a non heavy day they can be a piece of pisz.

But there are difficult, longer rounds where even not doing the job properly is impossible to complete in the given time.

So yes - finish an easier round in less time than is allowed for then more fool you. Yes you should be sent back out. Otherwise do the job properly. It is not more efficient to Royal Mail if you deliver the same amount of post and are still paid the hours you would normally be paid but finish early. You still cost royal mail the same. What is more efficient is those who finish quickly and take out more post in the contracted hours. If you don't like taking more slow down, use the trolley, take your break, don't cut across gardens, dont read and walk, take photos, fill in cards properly.

But if you do the job properly and still get back early then the walk is to short and needs revision. Simple

If you don’t read and walk I put it too you you are lying

[LaggyBand]

Yes that is all well and good but the point is most posties are not currently doing the job “properly” as you describe, but do the board realise that? Or are they being told everything is done as it should, in general? If they visit the floor, is the floor on that day representative of a typical floor on a typical day?

No doubt filling hours properly will cause posties to stop rushing and follow all rules.

I’m not saying that’s bad - I’m saying there’s probably a price for that.

[LaggyBand]

Oh. Something else.

Reading and walking reduces delivery time massively I reckon.

I’ll say about 1% of posties follow this rule by not reading and walking.

I’ll say the posties that read and walk do so because they are “trying to get done”.

I’ll say its physically easier to not read and walk.

I’ll say if these posties’ hours are fully utilised, lots more will not read and walk. It’s physcially easier not to.

And that’s just one rule.

It’s not about everyone “working-to-rule” out of spite. It’s about removing the reason why the rules are broken, and planning for the consequences.

Basically, I can’t see it coming in without some sort of performance expectation coupled with it, and I have no idea how that could be done fairly, legally, without causing mass upset in the workforce - not any way really.

[Tomolo208]

Food for thought.

Everyone is saying posties slowing down will cost the company so much money.

It will save on:
Workplace accidents caused by rushing.
Sickness going down.
Less RTC's
Higher staff retention.
Less customer complaints.
Higher barcode scanning, gaining new contracts.

[number one]

Food for thought.

Everyone is saying posties slowing down will cost the company so much money.

It will save on:
Workplace accidents caused by rushing.
Sickness going down.
Less RTC's
Higher staff retention.
Less customer complaints.
Higher barcode scanning, gaining new contracts.

What evidence have you got to back this claim up?

[clashcityrocker]

I’ll say about 1% of posties follow this rule by not reading and walking.

What evidence have you got to back this claim up?

[LaggyBand]

I’ll say about 1% of posties follow this rule by not reading and walking.

What evidence have you got to back this claim up?

I said “I’ll say”, to inject a subjective tone to the sentence.

I never purported it to be fact.

You reckon I’m far off?

[Seymour Buts]

This is another black and white slow v fast thread

The 'slowest' posties in my experiance are not so because they walk slow or whatever, it's how they work. Most of those going over constantly in our office do so because they have no idea what's in their van; they drive past oversized, they don't check where they have doubled up packets so go to the same house 2 or 3 times, end up going back to houses coz they've mis sorted post, spend ages writing lists ect ect ect. Or they just do the walk in a daft way coz the fitting doesn't run, will wait in the van for their partner instead of running oversized ect. The 'quick' posties are so they because they are simply organised in many cases.