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So where is dave ward...

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
norris9
Posts: 2671
Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 17:32
Gender: Female

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by norris9 »

Saturn1 wrote:
Yesterday, 10:59
Well that right there is partly why we're in the situation we are. Legacy staff had an "I'm alright Jack" attitude when two-tier contracts came in. Now the company are actively trying to make life difficult for the legacy staff so they quit. Divide and conquer at it's finest.
Odd to blame the legacy staff for Royal Mail changing the terms and conditions for new starts 3 or so years ago. You signed up to them, so you must have been happy enough with them. Obviously anyone on those terms would like them improved....

Dave Ward has not done enough to equalise terms and conditions and he's getting paid a ridiculous salary.

Legacy staff have seen T&C's depleted with sick pay being massively reduced a couple of years back.

I don't know what the ratio of new:legacy staff is now nationally, but in our office it's probably 50:50. Give it another year or 2 and maybe new contracts outweigh legacy, so those contracts become more and more normalised and accepted.
reddevils
Posts: 122
Joined: 23 Nov 2018, 00:05
Gender: Male

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by reddevils »

Odd to blame the legacy staff for Royal Mail changing the terms and conditions for new starts 3 or so years ago. You signed up to them, so you must have been happy enough with them. Obviously anyone on those terms would like them improved....
It's not helpful to blame legacy staff, I agree. It's also not helpful to dismiss new starters grievances, this is too easy to do and doesn't appreciate the situation and circumstance that new starters find themselves in when starting at Royal Mail.

Yes, they signed the contract.

But....signing the contract doesn't tell them they are entering a two tier workforce. It is a contract substantially different and massively reduced in pay and terms and conditions compared to people on older contracts. This does not compare to the past where pay was reduced for a year or you weren't entitled to certain allowances . New starters contracts compared to old contracts are the most unequal they have been in royal mail history and that is not an exaggeration!

Interviews at Royal Mail can also be very dishonest. New starters have told me managers told them they wouldn't have to work Sundays, there is plenty of overtime, you will only work specific times only for them to find out this had all been fabricated as soon as they walk into the building. Added to this normally being a reserve and being put on the worst duties or duties that haven't gone out of days, you can see why they might be a little pissed off!

And again before people say well when I started I was a reserve, I had it tough...it does not compare to the situation in the present day. Offices are in chaos, workload is intense and the demands are ruthless.

It is wrong to dismiss new starters grievances just as it is wrong to blame legacy staff for something the business has introduced, not the staff! New starters should aim their anger at Royal Mail and the Union. People on older contracts shouldn't dismiss new starters anger at their situation but support them . Telling them 'you signed up to them' is a typical managerial response that shouldn't be said to staff.

It is the same now as management introducing DM26 and telling staff with any sniff of protest or greivance about it; 'well you voted for it'. Too cheap, too easy, don't do it!
Saturn1
Posts: 54
Joined: 24 Sep 2025, 16:44
Gender: Male

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by Saturn1 »

Mottnibbler wrote:
Yesterday, 19:54

Funny, because I seem to remember going on strike for 17 days to try and stop a two tier workforce. Nothing "I'm alright jack" about that. Stupid thing to say!
How many legacy staff voted in favour of the pay deal, after two-tier working was already established and in place given the business introduced it Oct 2022? They were clearly happy with the status-quo then, but now the tables have turned on them they don't like it now, short sighted.

Answer:
RMG & CWU BUSINESS RECOVERY, TRANSFORMATION AND GROWTH AGREEMENT
CLOSE OF VOTING: FIRST POST, TUESDAY 11 JULY 2023

CONTEST: Do you endorse the Agreement?

RESULT

Yes
53,043 (75.84%)

No
16,896 (24.16%)
yellowbelly
Posts: 3696
Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 15:51
Gender: Male

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by yellowbelly »

BenacreNick wrote:
20 Aug 2026, 14:21
More to the point, why did the cwu members vote this in. When a no vote was the obvious choice.
Err, why did SOME Royal Mail CWU members vote this in!

RESULT No. votes % of valid vote
Yes 19,348 65.4%
No 10,242 34.6%

Turnout for this ballot was 32.9%.
Woody84
Posts: 196
Joined: 02 Nov 2024, 12:02
Gender: Male

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by Woody84 »

reddevils wrote:
Yesterday, 21:44
Odd to blame the legacy staff for Royal Mail changing the terms and conditions for new starts 3 or so years ago. You signed up to them, so you must have been happy enough with them. Obviously anyone on those terms would like them improved....
It's not helpful to blame legacy staff, I agree. It's also not helpful to dismiss new starters grievances, this is too easy to do and doesn't appreciate the situation and circumstance that new starters find themselves in when starting at Royal Mail.

Yes, they signed the contract.

But....signing the contract doesn't tell them they are entering a two tier workforce. It is a contract substantially different and massively reduced in pay and terms and conditions compared to people on older contracts. This does not compare to the past where pay was reduced for a year or you weren't entitled to certain allowances . New starters contracts compared to old contracts are the most unequal they have been in royal mail history and that is not an exaggeration!

Interviews at Royal Mail can also be very dishonest. New starters have told me managers told them they wouldn't have to work Sundays, there is plenty of overtime, you will only work specific times only for them to find out this had all been fabricated as soon as they walk into the building. Added to this normally being a reserve and being put on the worst duties or duties that haven't gone out of days, you can see why they might be a little pissed off!

And again before people say well when I started I was a reserve, I had it tough...it does not compare to the situation in the present day. Offices are in chaos, workload is intense and the demands are ruthless.

It is wrong to dismiss new starters grievances just as it is wrong to blame legacy staff for something the business has introduced, not the staff! New starters should aim their anger at Royal Mail and the Union. People on older contracts shouldn't dismiss new starters anger at their situation but support them . Telling them 'you signed up to them' is a typical managerial response that shouldn't be said to staff.

It is the same now as management introducing DM26 and telling staff with any sniff of protest or greivance about it; 'well you voted for it'. Too cheap, too easy, don't do it!
:Applause
Woody84
Posts: 196
Joined: 02 Nov 2024, 12:02
Gender: Male

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by Woody84 »

Once “legacy” contracts are gone the “new contract” will be the “new legacy contract” if that makes sense.

RM will eventually introduce a newer contract with emphasis on self employed owner drivers etc.

That’s their ultimate goal with all this and my guess is the union know it and are powerless to stop it eventually coming in.
Emohawk
Posts: 32
Joined: 06 Jan 2017, 20:55
Gender: Male

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by Emohawk »

Saturn1 wrote:
Yesterday, 10:59
Valentina@1 wrote:
Yesterday, 10:50
Just disappeared and left everyone in complete chaos,it’s disgusting what’s happening at minute,lot of legacy staff just can’t cope,moving around constantly,no set walk,overload work, basically being forced out job.

Sad times 😢
Well that right there is partly why we're in the situation we are. Legacy staff had an "I'm alright Jack" attitude when two-tier contracts came in. Now the company are actively trying to make life difficult for the legacy staff so they quit. Divide and conquer at it's finest.

The fundamental principle of a union is to stick together. We didn't do that at the end of the 2022 dispute and look where we are now. I mean the CWU HQ didn't even get guarantees for their own reps that were suspended before agreeing the pay deal, that's how out of touch we are.
The CWU negotiated a settlement that included two tier contracts.
Mottnibbler
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 Sep 2022, 18:56
Gender: Male

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by Mottnibbler »

Saturn1 wrote:
Today, 00:50
Mottnibbler wrote:
Yesterday, 19:54

Funny, because I seem to remember going on strike for 17 days to try and stop a two tier workforce. Nothing "I'm alright jack" about that. Stupid thing to say!
How many legacy staff voted in favour of the pay deal, after two-tier working was already established and in place given the business introduced it Oct 2022? They were clearly happy with the status-quo then, but now the tables have turned on them they don't like it now, short sighted.

Answer:
RMG & CWU BUSINESS RECOVERY, TRANSFORMATION AND GROWTH AGREEMENT
CLOSE OF VOTING: FIRST POST, TUESDAY 11 JULY 2023

CONTEST: Do you endorse the Agreement?

RESULT

Yes
53,043 (75.84%)

No
16,896 (24.16%)
Short sighted, do me a favour! I voted no, as did many others. The union gaslit people into thinking the business would go bust unless we agreed to the deal. The people that voted yes were short sighted because they wanted the £500 one off payment and a pathetic pay rise. Remember there was only a 32% turnout. The union had a huge mandate but decided to capitulate instead of forcing Royal Mails hand.
Mottnibbler
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 Sep 2022, 18:56
Gender: Male

Re: So where is dave ward...

Post by Mottnibbler »

Saturn1 wrote:
Today, 00:50
Mottnibbler wrote:
Yesterday, 19:54

Funny, because I seem to remember going on strike for 17 days to try and stop a two tier workforce. Nothing "I'm alright jack" about that. Stupid thing to say!
How many legacy staff voted in favour of the pay deal, after two-tier working was already established and in place given the business introduced it Oct 2022? They were clearly happy with the status-quo then, but now the tables have turned on them they don't like it now, short sighted.

Answer:
RMG & CWU BUSINESS RECOVERY, TRANSFORMATION AND GROWTH AGREEMENT
CLOSE OF VOTING: FIRST POST, TUESDAY 11 JULY 2023

CONTEST: Do you endorse the Agreement?

RESULT

Yes
53,043 (75.84%)

No
16,896 (24.16%)
And also, the two tier contracts officially started on the 1st of December 2022. Get your facts straight or wind your neck in.