Shift patterns

[Thommo44]

If an office has 60 post persons, with only 30 in a union, how is it right that 16 persons in the union can decide the shift pattern for the whole office? Out of the 30, 21 are already on a Wallington week so no prizes for guessing what they will choose.
Surely everyone should get a vote on their destiny?

[reddevils]

You aren't entitled to a vote. It is a business decision. The staff don't have to be involved.
The only reason there is a vote is because the union have made it part of the agreement using what little leverage they have nowadays.

If you are not part of the union you deserve no say. People pay their fees every week to have that right, you didn't.

[A2B]

If an office has 60 post persons, with only 30 in a union, how is it right that 16 persons in the union can decide the shift pattern for the whole office? Out of the 30, 21 are already on a Wallington week so no prizes for guessing what they will choose.
Surely everyone should get a vote on their destiny?

Apparently it's the law?

Join the union for a few weeks have your vote and then leave if you want

How many of your 60 are new contracts? Is it right that they vote on shift patterns they probably aren't able to do?

[Perseus]

You can join the union quickly.

[Iva bigredbag]

You aren't entitled to a vote. It is a business decision. The staff don't have to be involved.
The only reason there is a vote is because the union have made it part of the agreement using what little leverage they have nowadays.

If you are not part of the union you deserve no say. People pay their fees every week to have that right, you didn't.

lol like the union give a crap what you say anyway. The same union that agreed to this new crap. One thing is for sure in every delivery office in the country, the union rep, the person helping the DOM make the changes will not be doing a harder duty than the one they were on before the changes, oh and the Area reps and above will be standing watching the real posites suffer every day in job the union have allowed to go to the dogs; with a big smile on their face saying "I promise it will get easier".

[Iva bigredbag]

You can join the union quickly.

No thanks that sorry excuse for a union stopped getting my money a long time ago.

[Perseus]

You can join the union quickly.

No thanks that sorry excuse for a union stopped getting my money a long time ago.

That's fair enough, but it's the only way to get a vote.

[Thommo44]

You aren't entitled to a vote. It is a business decision. The staff don't have to be involved.
The only reason there is a vote is because the union have made it part of the agreement using what little leverage they have nowadays.

If you are not part of the union you deserve no say. People pay their fees every week to have that right, you didn't.

I am in the union, the idea of having a union is to ensure fairness. Since the strike around 20 came out of the union and the way things have gone since probably justifies coming out.
To think they could tempt people to join or rejoin, just so they could vote on a shift pattern that will be offered by management shows a lot of arrogance

[reddevils]

lol like the union give a crap what you say anyway. The same union that agreed to this new crap. One thing is for sure in every delivery office in the country, the union rep, the person helping the DOM make the changes will not be doing a harder duty than the one they were on before the changes, oh and the Area reps and above will be standing watching the real posites suffer every day in job the union have allowed to go to the dogs; with a big smile on their face saying "I promise it will get easier".
[/quote]

Royal Mail have decided to reduce the delivery days after Ofcom authorised it. The Union have had to respond to it.
The union is flawed and weak at present, I agree. Every organisation made up of people is flawed, it is human nature.
What I find laughable is it is always the Union that takes most stick but not the employer. The employer that if it it was free from a union would turn royal mail into a gig economy operator over night.
Yes reps get perks and nobody likes the way of working that is being introduced. But has been mitigated by the union. If there was no union it would be even worse. Remember a union is simply a collection of working people defending their own interests against an employer which uses its capital, wealth and influence to attempt to diminish that power.

Even footballers, actors and doctors are in unions because despite being wealthy they know their own interests are protected if they are together.

So its all well and good people complaining about the union or leaving it but this plays right into the employers hands. Sadly the working class often dig their own grave, whilst the employer manically laughs from above.

[A2B]

The CWU at the moment is at a very low ebb but better to have it than nothing

[qwerty2]

The CWU at the moment is at a very low ebb but better to have it than nothing

Better to have nothing than pay these numpties

[reddevils]

I am in the union, the idea of having a union is to ensure fairness. Since the strike around 20 came out of the union and the way things have gone since probably justifies coming out.
To think they could tempt people to join or rejoin, just so they could vote on a shift pattern that will be offered by management shows a lot of arrogance
[/quote]


It doesn't justify coming out because reduced membership weakens the union which helps the employer and makes it more difficult for the union to defend its workers leading to even worse outcomes.

It seems perfectly fair to me that those that pay their fees every week and are members of the union, that has used its clout and power because of these paying members are entitled to vote because of an agreement the union has negotiated. Like I said if there was no union there would not be a vote, it would be imposed.

And the last part 'to think they could tempt people to join or rejoin just so they could vote on a shift pattern'.

The union haven't been persuading people to rejoin to vote on a shift pattern. The vote is for its members, not thrown in to get ex members to return. People might have replied on the forum suggesting people rejoin the union but it is not official union policy. It just makes practical sense. If you really want a vote then rejoin the union before the vote begins in your office.

[reddevils]

The CWU at the moment is at a very low ebb but better to have it than nothing

Better to have nothing than pay these numpties

Typical low I.Q statement that contributes nothing to the discussion.

[A2B]

The CWU at the moment is at a very low ebb but better to have it than nothing

Better to have nothing than pay these numpties

You know that not true but rant away

[tramssirhc]

If an office has 60 post persons, with only 30 in a union, how is it right that 16 persons in the union can decide the shift pattern for the whole office? Out of the 30, 21 are already on a Wallington week so no prizes for guessing what they will choose.
Surely everyone should get a vote on their destiny?

Attendance patterns are negotiated through the collective bargaining machinery and this is expressly stated in contracts of employment with the caveat that employees are members of a recognised trade union. The agreement reinforced this.

If the density is a poor as you describe then it would be reasonable for the non-members to be consulted by the employer on the attendance pattern they would prefer. There is nothing to stop the employer gathering this information and using it in the negotiation.