Documents withdrawn

[Martin Walsh]

As a result of yesterdays meeting Royal Mail have informed the CWU that they have withdrawn the documents on door to door and delivery design which have been posted on here.

Instead Royal Mail confirmed to the union they want agreements which both sides believe are fair and have both got confidence in..

Not a bad start.

[postghost]

As a result of yesterdays meeting Royal Mail have informed the CWU that they have withdrawn the documents on door to door and delivery design which have been posted on here.

Instead Royal Mail confirmed to the union they want agreements which both sides believe are fair and have both got confidence in..

Not a bad start.

Or they could have decided we would not be prepping enough items a minute......

[DGP1]

They've just come up with a worse one

Until I see real change for the better then I'm just going to assume the worse.

[fishtank]

As a result of yesterdays meeting Royal Mail have informed the CWU that they have withdrawn the documents on door to door and delivery design which have been posted on here.

Instead Royal Mail confirmed to the union they want agreements which both sides believe are fair and have both got confidence in..

Not a bad start.

So what parts of these documents would our side wish to change?
What do we think is an achievable prep rate on D2D?
What do we think is a reasonable maximum delivery span for HCT,CDV or "on the shoulder"?
Any plans to ask the membership dingo?

[Spedley]

Either they did testing and the evaluation came out as previously posted ... or they didn't and just made up a load of crap.

Which one is it?

[BELIAL]

As a result of yesterdays meeting Royal Mail have informed the CWU that they have withdrawn the documents on door to door and delivery design which have been posted on here.

Instead Royal Mail confirmed to the union they want agreements which both sides believe are fair and have both got confidence in..

Not a bad start.

Can we have another meeting about this years pay cut ? Please

[ldsposti]

WHICH documents dingo are they on here. not sure if ive seen them.

[dvbuk55]

The more that is disclosed as the agreement is ratified it does make you wonder wtf they were talking about for 5 months. Surely RM put forward what they expected from the agreement and the CWU put forward their views.

[Big Daz]

As a result of yesterdays meeting Royal Mail have informed the CWU that they have withdrawn the documents on door to door and delivery design which have been posted on here.

Instead Royal Mail confirmed to the union they want agreements which both sides believe are fair and have both got confidence in..

Not a bad start.

So what parts of these documents would our side wish to change?
What do we think is an achievable prep rate on D2D?
What do we think is a reasonable maximum delivery span for HCT,CDV or "on the shoulder"?
Any plans to ask the membership dingo?

Good solid sensible questions Mr fishtank, well done

[POSTMAN]

WHICH documents dingo are they on here. not sure if ive seen them.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 42&t=26473" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 42&t=26472" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[General Mannerheim]

Not hard to withdraw a document when there are now two tiers of management.

[Martin Walsh]

In front of Roger Poole and ACAS Royal Mail have most senior management have stated to the union that these documents have been withdrawn along with their content. Instead they stated that they want to agree with the union any doucments along with the standards. They have stated that they want to abide by all the commitments that they gave in the agreement.

Now what I find strange and rather gauling is that some of you seem to have a desire that the agreement will turn out as bad as you painted it. Now that is depressing.

New relationships are not going to built overnight in some areas , remember some areas did not just have two days of strike action but in Some Parts of Scotland , the South West , Network and London we experience many months of confilict. Delievery office managers in the main get told to do things some are bullies and some of the instructions from above is aimed at bullying. This needs changing but it wont be done over night . It like any process be that the Northern Ireland talks there is loads of hidden agendas and loads of mistust. However there is a desire at the very top of Royal Mail to change. Hopefully that will mean that operational managers start changing. Only time will tell.

Now instead of you wanting this agreement to fail why dont you get of your PC and go and help your rep introduce into the office the right agreement. Thats what we will be doing in London. Sitting on the sidelines moaning is all well and good but what does it achieve ?

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank there are numeous parts of these documents which the union are not happy with , planning values , the planned increase of door to door, the call rate along with a number of other points. With regards to the delivery design well again there are numerous assumptions in the document when we have not agreed the standards which are deemed fair and reasonable.

What do we think is an achievable figure for prep ? Well it depends on a number of factors , what your frame is believe it or not not everyone has the same frames , and it will depend on whether you have double slots per address. The number of redirections , the number of dead , the number of frames you have to clear in from before you start your prep , whether you have walk sequencing work , how many bundles you have etc.

British Industry states that 75 BSI is what a normal work is able to work at , anything over 75 BSI shoud be on the basis that an indivdual is fully trained , fully motivated , has an incentive , has a full head of work and works in a safe enviorment.

Now Royal Mail believe that a 10 prep rate all in is 75 BSI . The union is not convinced as different offices have different ways of working and wants to test that in a live enviorment.

Now in terms of what should be a length of walk will be will depend again on whether you have delivery methods or not and whether you have walk sequencing or not.

Without delivery methods then I think the maximum walk really is about 4 hours.

With delivery methods then that will depend on when you get your second batch of work. The last letter for towns is 3 o clock so the span will be driven by when you get your second batch.

CDVs are widlely used around the world in postal companies and the States and most of Europe do not have set delivery span like the UK and their sickness and accident culture is better than Royal Mail. Why because they have the tools for the job and people dont chase time and cut corners.

CDVs should take weight off the shoulder and where they work they are popular Plymouth is a prime example.

The span will depend equally what type of attendance your office chooses as the longer the day the longer the delivery span has to be.

Health and Safety reports indicate it is safer to walk 4 hours without weight on the shoulder then it is to walk 3.5 hours with weight on the shoulder.

Delivery methods may be unpopular intially as it takes away the use of private cars and it means that indivduals cannot work on their own but as part of a pair but in the long term they should remove stress , fatigue and sickness due to wieght on the shoulder and just as importantly the amount of lifes taken by postman who have decided to dirve their own cars with mail piled up in the back and are NOT INSURED and have a crash.

[pickaname]

Fishtank there are numeous parts of these documents which the union are not happy with , planning values , the planned increase of door to door, the call rate along with a number of other points. With regards to the delivery design well again there are numerous assumptions in the document when we have not agreed the standards which are deemed fair and reasonable.

What do we think is an achievable figure for prep ? Well it depends on a number of factors , what your frame is believe it or not not everyone has the same frames , and it will depend on whether you have double slots per address. The number of redirections , the number of dead , the number of frames you have to clear in from before you start your prep , whether you have walk sequencing work , how many bundles you have etc.

British Industry states that 75 BSI is what a normal work is able to work at , anything over 75 BSI shoud be on the basis that an indivdual is fully trained , fully motivated , has an incentive , has a full head of work and works in a safe enviorment.

Now Royal Mail believe that a 10 prep rate all in is 75 BSI . The union is not convinced as different offices have different ways of working and wants to test that in a live enviorment.

Now in terms of what should be a length of walk will be will depend again on whether you have delivery methods or not and whether you have walk sequencing or not.

Without delivery methods then I think the maximum walk really is about 4 hours.

With delivery methods then that will depend on when you get your second batch of work. The last letter for towns is 3 o clock so the span will be driven by when you get your second batch.

CDVs are widlely used around the world in postal companies and the States and most of Europe do not have set delivery span like the UK and their sickness and accident culture is better than Royal Mail. Why because they have the tools for the job and people dont chase time and cut corners.

CDVs should take weight off the shoulder and where they work they are popular Plymouth is a prime example.

The span will depend equally what type of attendance your office chooses as the longer the day the longer the delivery span has to be.

Health and Safety reports indicate it is safer to walk 4 hours without weight on the shoulder then it is to walk 3.5 hours with weight on the shoulder.

Delivery methods may be unpopular intially as it takes away the use of private cars and it means that indivduals cannot work on their own but as part of a pair but in the long term they should remove stress , fatigue and sickness due to wieght on the shoulder and just as importantly the amount of lifes taken by postman who have decided to dirve their own cars with mail piled up in the back and are NOT INSURED and have a crash.

Dingo, you have said more or less the same thing as my line manager uttered this week. Not much difference between RM and CWU now so im not really that suprised....

I'd like to know why Royal Mail issued the document on d2d etc in the first place. Isnt it a little worrying that they felt the need to release them at all? The ink isnt even dry and already we have disagreements.

With this in mind, I would say NOT a good start.

[General Mannerheim]

No whats depressing is a union that doesn`t want to represent ALL of it`s members.

Also banging on about European postal operators,well dingo I happen to be Finnish and worked for the Finnish postal service,for a start the management were never as confrontational as they are in Royal Mail,and yes we did use vans to deliver the mail but one person does the round not two.
Most of the house have blocks of mailboxes at the end of the street so you drive up wizz the mail in an speed off, I only had to get out twice on the delivery I did to go to some furniture manufactures,your NOT walking around for hours on end which you will be doing still under the new Park and Loop fiasco,hey but thats alright as the weight is off your shoulders,marvellous,remove one cause of strain and replace it with more in walking longer, smart move,and whilst on the subject just what measures are in place for people who find the job tougher as the agreement is very vague to say the least,with there will be new ways to identify stress or fatigue?